Steering Committee Minutes 2007-02-08

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URL: http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Steering_Committee_Minutes_2007-02-08

(These minutes have not yet been approved by Steering Committee vote. As of 5Apr07, only 3 responses to the request to approve these minutes, all positive.)

Contents

OpenAjax Alliance Steering Committee meeting minutes 2007-02-08

Attendees

  • DOJO/Alex Russell
  • ECLIPSE/Mike Milinkovich
  • IBM/David Boloker
  • TIBCO/Kevin Hakman
  • ZEND/Michael Pinette
  • ZIMBRA/Scott Dietzen
  • Jon Ferraiolo

Original Agenda

  • Agenda
    • Proposal Phase has begun for Marketing Working Group and Interoperability Working Group
      • Draft WG proposals/charters are available now
      • Timelines
        • Working Group Declarations sent to participants@openajax.org - Jan. 29, 2007
        • Proposal Phase - Jan. 29, 2007 - March 2, 2007
        • Charters temporarily frozen - March 5, 2007
        • OpenAjax Alliance face-to-face meeting in NYC - March 22-23, 2007
        • Working Group Creation Review phone calls
          • Marketing: Tuesday, March 27, 2007, 9amPST, noonEST, 6pmParis
          • Interop: Wed, March 28, 2007, 8amPST, 11amEST, 5pmParis
        • Member voting - March 28-April 4, 2007
        • Steering Committee voting - April 4-April 11, 2007
    • Next F2F meeting - March 22-23
    • Status report (on the agenda for every SC meeting)
      • Marketing committee
        • Web site update ready - if no objections by Friday noon, will be uploaded
      • Interoperability committee
        • Just finished a discussion session on minor updates to the Hub spec
        • Interoperability committee is still walking through Hub spec
        • A handful of companies are working on passing the InteropFest test
        • Next big thing: OpenAjax Registry
      • Task forces
        • IDE/Server task forces
          • Use cases and requirements in progress
          • "OpenAjax Components" specification?
        • Communications Hub - Moving quickly. Pursuing a communications hub feature to be added to OpenAjax Hub which will be a general framework to support both XHR and server push. Greg Wilkins has detailed proposals, along with sample source code.
        • Security - No meetings yet. Homework and preparation happening in the background.
    • (NEW TOPIC - SENT AFTER AGENDA WAS EMAIL'D) Sun proposal for OpenAjax brochure and "monitor ear"
      • Brochure:
        1. Sun contributes a proposed brochure (probably as a PDF) which is reviewed by the Marketing Committee and Steering Committee
        2. After approval, aA PDF at a place where people can download it (OpenAjax wiki or web site)
        3. Companies can printing out a hardcopy at their own expense.
      • Monitor Ear
        • Alliance agress on a standard hi-res raster image for use at trade shows
    • Modify the Alliance's voting procedures?

Minutes

Topic: Proposal Phase has begun for Marketing Working Group and Interoperability Working Group

  • Draft WG proposals/charters are available now
  • Timelines
    • Working Group Declarations sent to participants@openajax.org - Jan. 29, 2007
    • Proposal Phase - Jan. 29, 2007 - March 2, 2007
    • Charters temporarily frozen - March 5, 2007
    • OpenAjax Alliance face-to-face meeting in NYC - March 22-23, 2007
    • Working Group Creation Review phone calls
      • Marketing: Tuesday, March 27, 2007, 9amPST, noonEST, 6pmParis
      • Interop: Wed, March 28, 2007, 8amPST, 11amEST, 5pmParis
    • Member voting - March 28-April 4, 2007
    • Steering Committee voting - April 4-April 11, 2007

(This was mainly an FYI. Jon talked about how Working Group Proposals have been submitted per our new Development Process and described the projected timeline (per above). )

MikeM: We are executing on the Development Process.

(No other comments or questions.)

Topic: Next F2F meeting - March 22-23

(Jon talks about how he pulled together a first-draft agenda this week and decided that the best approach was topic-oriented interactive working sessions where issues are addresses, and minimize the amount of lecturing. Both Marketing and Interop committees gain positive responses to this approach. Wiki page for attendees. 12 people already.)

David: Who from SC will not attend?

(no response)

David: And some IBM people like Joe and Adam haven't listed themselves yet.

Jon: All of that will take us to 20 already. I expect a good turnout. Probably between 30 and 60.

MikeM: I like the idea of going off in subgroups for working sessions and then everyone comes back together.

Jon: During marketing meeting, we talked about one cycle of splitting and returning, where perhaps Thursday is all-hands, Friday morning is breakouts, and Friday lunch is all-hands. Maybe split in early afternoon. But first we need to see what the agenda looks like. If too much material, we shouldn't split early and squander the opportunity where we are all together.

Jon: What do people think of this whole approach?

Alex/MikeM/David: Tentative plan sounds reasonable.

Topic: Marketing committee

  • Web site update ready - if no objections by Friday noon, will be uploaded

Jon: If no one objects, updated Web site will go live on Friday afternoon. Highlights of changes are updates to the white papers, update on status of the Hub, and discussions about intentions with OpenAjax Conformance, Registry and Best Practices.

Kevin: Layout problem with IE6. Probable CSS bug in IE.

Jon: Thanks for the report. (Jon subsequently fixed the site so it works with IE6.)

David: Going live sounds good.

Jon: Anyone see a problem with going live?

(silence - so Web site update gets pushed on Friday afternoon unless someone points out a problem before then)

Topic: Interoperability committee

  • Just finished a discussion session on minor updates to the Hub spec
  • Interoperability committee is still walking through Hub spec
  • A handful of companies are working on passing the InteropFest test
  • Next big thing: OpenAjax Registry

Kevin: TIBCO is using the Hub successfully. Exercising it in multiple scenarios. Embedding an element. Working with Joe Walker and DWR to use Hub's publish/subscribe mechanism. So, lots of success. 2 engineers have been focused on the work, Howard and Jesse. They have been giving feedback on the Hub. Particularly things needed in the context of portals.

Jon: Yes, this is the sort of real-world implementation feedback we need at this stage.

Jon: It continues to look like around 10 (+/- 3) toolkits will support the Hub by the F2F meeting. Some will be trial implementations in branches.

David: Should we have a show&tell at the F2F. Will testimonials of what it takes to pass the test. People are probably wondering how much work it is.

Kevin: We would be glad to share.

Jon: Should be easy to do at the F2F. Just go to the test case's wiki page and click on the links within the table.

Topic: Interoperability committee

  • IDE/Server task forces
    • Use cases and requirements in progress
    • "OpenAjax Components" specification?

Jon: IDE task force is the shining star. Making the most progress.

Kevin: Not sure how shining. Feel like we had a slow start, but now we have good momentum over the past month. We are following good processes per suggestion from Jon. Now working on use cases and requirements. Today we finished use cases. 2 weeks we start on requirements. Probably finish within 4 weeeks. Should have a recommendation for the F2F.

Jon: Server TF is about 2 weeks behind the IE TF in terms of progress. Both are discovered lots of overlap. I was thinking that the right course of action is to have a joint subcommittee that addresses OpenAjax Components that addresses both IDE and Server integration needs.

Scott: I think there will be enough issues that we will want a separate working group. Interoperability is mainly focused on the runtime.

Jon: I should have thought of that. Makes sense.

Kevin: Seems justified.

MikeM: Is anyone else uncomfortable with pursuing a component model? Slippery slope.

Alex: Me, too.

Kevin: Mainly metadata for interoperability of various widgets. Relative to a component model, just basic stuff, mainly metadata.

MikeM: Slippery slope. Lots of Eclipse experience. We developed our own plugin model then abandoned it for OSGi.

Jon: We aren't talking about a component model or plugin manager. Just standard way to integrate into IDEs and servers.

MikeM: Have you thought about taking OSGi and subsetting it?

Alex: I looked at it. How to say it - bad idea. Not that OSGi is bad. But it's defined around something that isn't as dynamic as the browser. Mainly has to do with JavaScript and the ability to monkey patch stuff.

MikeM: How good is it to allow all of those degrees of freedom?

Alex: What I'm saying is that OSDi subsetting isn't the right approach, but being advised by the concepts is better. But OSGi is big.

MikeM: Not all of OSGi. Something like core services only.

Alex: Maybe livecycle of components and registration. But at the end it won't look like OSGi except in the approach.

MikeM: Inspired by is better than doing things from scratch.

Kevin: IDE TF will look at OSGi so we don't reinvent wheels.

MikeM: I will see about having someone from Eclipse join the conversation.

Alex: AOL has a microformat for a document snippet.

Topic: Communications Hub TF

Jon: Coach isn't here. Moving quickly. Pursuing a communications hub feature to be added to OpenAjax Hub which will be a general framework to support both XHR and server push. Greg Wilkins has detailed proposals, along with sample source code.

(no comments)

Topic: Security TF

Jon: No meetings yet. Homework and preparation happening in the background.

Kevin: Is anyone seeing a strong need in this area?

David/Alex: (strong yes - Ajax security concerns are very high)

Alex: Especially with recent XSRF (cross-site request forgery).

Kevin: I'm not seeing it. Shipping products with no problems. But most of our customers are doing things behind the firewall.

David: This is a problem that has existed. It's a web problem, not just an Ajax problem. Ajax makes it more obvious.

Kevin: How to get the task force energized?

David: We have 11-12 people signed up. Slow because trying to agree on issues. Big opportunity is a May security conference in Oakland when the best people will all be present. Topics will come up there. IBM co-chairs. Have to see what other groups are doing, like W3C.

Alex: If W3C doesn't do anything, then maybe approach WhatWG. They are interested in these issues.

Alex: how about Andrew van der Tak and the white hat guy? (??? Not sure about this name)

Jon: I will be meeting with Doug Crockford of Yahoo, mainly about security, but will go through the whole list of Yahoo issues.

Kevin: Discuss at F2F?

David: Will set up. Maybe I'll have Larry presnet, with Alex, key issues for Web pages.

Jon: I was going to see if Doug Crockford would come on Thursday morning if we had a security session as an invited guest.

Topic: Sun proposal for OpenAjax brochure and "monitor ear"

  • Brochure:
    1. Sun contributes a proposed brochure (probably as a PDF) which is reviewed by the Marketing Committee and Steering Committee
    2. After approval, aA PDF at a place where people can download it (OpenAjax wiki or web site)
    3. Companies can printing out a hardcopy at their own expense.
  • Monitor Ear
    • Alliance agress on a standard hi-res raster image for use at trade shows

(general feeling that this is good)

Topic: Modify the Alliance's voting procedures?

Jon: This will be discussed at F2F.

MikeM: If we change our voting approach, then definitely adopt Apache. They spent a long time perfecting it.

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