From jferrai at us.ibm.com Tue Feb 6 08:43:07 2007 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2007 08:43:07 -0800 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] iPhone boosts Ajax and fluid UIs Message-ID: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/01/iphone_boosts_ajax/ Thanks to Louenas for pointing out this article. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20070206/ec6d2fee/attachment.html From rotan.hanrahan at mobileaware.com Wed Feb 7 01:33:22 2007 From: rotan.hanrahan at mobileaware.com (Rotan Hanrahan) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 09:33:22 -0000 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] iPhone boosts Ajax and fluid UIs References: Message-ID: I draw your attention to a quote from the article: "Mobile versions of Ajax applications have, to date, been hard to implement and usually need a whole new code base - in contrast to the simplicity of porting Flash applications to mobile architectures using Flash Lite." One of the challenges for a mobile version of Ajax is the considerable diversity present in the mobile domain. It is usually sufficient in the PC world to have a few conditions built into the scripts to take care of the handful of differences between browsers. In the mobile domain this problem is *considerably* greater. Furthermore, given the experience with the normal content rendering differences, the necessary conditional logic in the scripts would expand the payload beyond that which the mobile device/network would usefully manage. A solution could be to make intelligent decisions about script and presentation resources at the server side, so that a tailored Ajax experience can be delivered to the mobile device. This will require reliable knowledge about the device capabilities to be available to the server (in real time). It is this kind of scenario that the W3C's DDWG (Device Description working group) is hoping to resolve. The group is concentrating on the needs of content adaptation, not process (script) adaptation, but extensibility will be there from the start. This means that other interests can extend the technology to embrace their requirements. So, the question for Ajax people is this: what information about the mobile device would I need to know in order to (automatically) tailor my Ajax solution to maximize the end user experience? When you have some answers to this question, consider sharing your insights with the DDWG. ---Rotan ________________________________ From: mobile-bounces at openajax.org on behalf of Jon Ferraiolo Sent: Tue 06/02/2007 16:43 To: mobile at openajax.org; marketing at openajax.org Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] iPhone boosts Ajax and fluid UIs http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/01/iphone_boosts_ajax/ Thanks to Louenas for pointing out this article. Jon From louenas.hamdi at sap.com Wed Feb 7 05:41:14 2007 From: louenas.hamdi at sap.com (Hamdi, Louenas) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 08:41:14 -0500 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] iPhone boosts Ajax and fluid UIs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <6644EC646571D04DA95850E3D803903A01F279DC@usphle12.phl.sap.corp> Hello, You are right about the diversity and the difference in the capabilities that mobile browsers offer today but OpenAjax is not about the user experience and definitely not about UI. It's objective is mainly interoperability so as more than one app could run at the same time on the host browser. Am I wrong? --- Louenas -----Original Message----- From: mobile-bounces at openajax.org [mailto:mobile-bounces at openajax.org] On Behalf Of Rotan Hanrahan Sent: Wednesday, Feb 07, 2007 4:33 AM To: OpenAjax Alliance discussion list on Mobile Ajax; mobile at openajax.org; marketing at openajax.org Subject: Re: [OpenAjaxMobile] iPhone boosts Ajax and fluid UIs I draw your attention to a quote from the article: "Mobile versions of Ajax applications have, to date, been hard to implement and usually need a whole new code base - in contrast to the simplicity of porting Flash applications to mobile architectures using Flash Lite." One of the challenges for a mobile version of Ajax is the considerable diversity present in the mobile domain. It is usually sufficient in the PC world to have a few conditions built into the scripts to take care of the handful of differences between browsers. In the mobile domain this problem is *considerably* greater. Furthermore, given the experience with the normal content rendering differences, the necessary conditional logic in the scripts would expand the payload beyond that which the mobile device/network would usefully manage. A solution could be to make intelligent decisions about script and presentation resources at the server side, so that a tailored Ajax experience can be delivered to the mobile device. This will require reliable knowledge about the device capabilities to be available to the server (in real time). It is this kind of scenario that the W3C's DDWG (Device Description working group) is hoping to resolve. The group is concentrating on the needs of content adaptation, not process (script) adaptation, but extensibility will be there from the start. This means that other interests can extend the technology to embrace their requirements. So, the question for Ajax people is this: what information about the mobile device would I need to know in order to (automatically) tailor my Ajax solution to maximize the end user experience? When you have some answers to this question, consider sharing your insights with the DDWG. ---Rotan ________________________________ From: mobile-bounces at openajax.org on behalf of Jon Ferraiolo Sent: Tue 06/02/2007 16:43 To: mobile at openajax.org; marketing at openajax.org Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] iPhone boosts Ajax and fluid UIs http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/01/iphone_boosts_ajax/ Thanks to Louenas for pointing out this article. Jon _______________________________________________ mobile mailing list mobile at openajax.org http://openajax.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile From rotan.hanrahan at mobileaware.com Wed Feb 7 06:21:52 2007 From: rotan.hanrahan at mobileaware.com (Rotan Hanrahan) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 14:21:52 -0000 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] iPhone boosts Ajax and fluid UIs In-Reply-To: <6644EC646571D04DA95850E3D803903A01F279DC@usphle12.phl.sap.corp> References: <6644EC646571D04DA95850E3D803903A01F279DC@usphle12.phl.sap.corp> Message-ID: Hi Louenas, I was speaking in the context of: http://www.openajax.org/futures.html where it is said: "... developer best practices (e.g., designing Ajax applications such that they scale well to small-screen devices)" In order to assist in the scaling of Ajax applications to the diverse world of small-screen devices (mostly mobile) it is necessary to provide the information that Ajax solutions will need to adapt. This is also expressed in the OpenAjax whitepaper: http://www.openajax.org/whitepaper.html#Cross-device_applications_deskto p_and_mobile where you find the following: "Use a server-side, multi-target Ajax toolkit - To reach a large number of mobile devices, some of which ship with more limited features sets, web developers can take advantage of Ajax toolkits that provide a cross-platform abstraction layer. These toolkits adapt Ajax source into appropriate client-side instructions, such as mobile subsets of HTML+JavaScript, mobile SVG, or J2ME." So, what I have spoken about with respect to the aims of the W3C DDWG is in the context of enabling the OpenAjax Alliance achieve these goals. Currently, the work of the DDWG is motivated by the needs of the UI and user experience. Some Ajax is already playing a key role in improving the user experience, and this would be a very appropriate topic for dialog with the DDWG. Naturally, because the technology being developed by DDWG will be extensible, it is natural to consider how this could later be used for other non-UI purposes within the Ajax community. I hope this clarifies my point. Regards, ---Rotan. -----Original Message----- From: mobile-bounces at openajax.org [mailto:mobile-bounces at openajax.org] On Behalf Of Hamdi, Louenas Sent: 07 February 2007 13:41 To: OpenAjax Alliance discussion list on Mobile Ajax; marketing at openajax.org Subject: Re: [OpenAjaxMobile] iPhone boosts Ajax and fluid UIs Hello, You are right about the diversity and the difference in the capabilities that mobile browsers offer today but OpenAjax is not about the user experience and definitely not about UI. It's objective is mainly interoperability so as more than one app could run at the same time on the host browser. Am I wrong? --- Louenas -----Original Message----- From: mobile-bounces at openajax.org [mailto:mobile-bounces at openajax.org] On Behalf Of Rotan Hanrahan Sent: Wednesday, Feb 07, 2007 4:33 AM To: OpenAjax Alliance discussion list on Mobile Ajax; mobile at openajax.org; marketing at openajax.org Subject: Re: [OpenAjaxMobile] iPhone boosts Ajax and fluid UIs I draw your attention to a quote from the article: "Mobile versions of Ajax applications have, to date, been hard to implement and usually need a whole new code base - in contrast to the simplicity of porting Flash applications to mobile architectures using Flash Lite." One of the challenges for a mobile version of Ajax is the considerable diversity present in the mobile domain. It is usually sufficient in the PC world to have a few conditions built into the scripts to take care of the handful of differences between browsers. In the mobile domain this problem is *considerably* greater. Furthermore, given the experience with the normal content rendering differences, the necessary conditional logic in the scripts would expand the payload beyond that which the mobile device/network would usefully manage. A solution could be to make intelligent decisions about script and presentation resources at the server side, so that a tailored Ajax experience can be delivered to the mobile device. This will require reliable knowledge about the device capabilities to be available to the server (in real time). It is this kind of scenario that the W3C's DDWG (Device Description working group) is hoping to resolve. The group is concentrating on the needs of content adaptation, not process (script) adaptation, but extensibility will be there from the start. This means that other interests can extend the technology to embrace their requirements. So, the question for Ajax people is this: what information about the mobile device would I need to know in order to (automatically) tailor my Ajax solution to maximize the end user experience? When you have some answers to this question, consider sharing your insights with the DDWG. ---Rotan ________________________________ From: mobile-bounces at openajax.org on behalf of Jon Ferraiolo Sent: Tue 06/02/2007 16:43 To: mobile at openajax.org; marketing at openajax.org Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] iPhone boosts Ajax and fluid UIs http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/01/iphone_boosts_ajax/ Thanks to Louenas for pointing out this article. Jon _______________________________________________ mobile mailing list mobile at openajax.org http://openajax.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile _______________________________________________ mobile mailing list mobile at openajax.org http://openajax.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile From jferrai at us.ibm.com Wed Feb 7 09:43:57 2007 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2007 09:43:57 -0800 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] [OpenAjaxMarketing] iPhone boosts Ajax and fluid UIs In-Reply-To: Message-ID: (Restricting this to the mobile list) I agree with the comments expressed so for. My additions: 1) I think it would be good to talk about server-side mobile adaptation issues at our F2F meeting in March to get a sense about how people feel about the relevance and importance within the context of our Alliance. 2) Personally, having spent time at W3C and therefore having been exposed to some of the device independence work there, particularly on the mobile side, I believe that server-side adaptation is an important component in an overall application architecture for both (non Ajax-ified) HTML and Ajax. If we had infinite resources available, OpenAjax Alliance should definitely pursue those issues. But we don't have infinite resources, and there is related work happening at W3C, so the question to me is what specific role OpenAjax Alliance should play in helping in the area of Mobile Ajax server-side adaption technologies (versus W3C and other groups) and what the priority of any candidate OpenAjax activities should be versus other things on our plate. 3) On the Mobile Ajax front, my sense right now is that the top priority for OpenAjax Alliance is: (a) marketing and promotion of Mobile Ajax - getting the word out that Ajax generally works on selected high-end mobile phones today (particularly WebKit and Opera), and (b) promoting best practices for content developers such that their Ajax-ified Web sites will work reasonably well on mobile devices on today's high-end mobile phones. (My assumption is that by the time we get any momentum with (a) and (b), the mid-range mobile phones will be able to run desktop Ajax.) But even if people agree with me on this, we still might pursue additional activities around mobile adaptation. Jon "Rotan Hanrahan" To Sent by: "OpenAjax Alliance discussion list marketing-bounces on Mobile Ajax" @openajax.org , cc 02/07/2007 06:21 AM Subject Re: [OpenAjaxMarketing] [OpenAjaxMobile] iPhone boosts Ajax and fluid UIs Hi Louenas, I was speaking in the context of: http://www.openajax.org/futures.html where it is said: "... developer best practices (e.g., designing Ajax applications such that they scale well to small-screen devices)" In order to assist in the scaling of Ajax applications to the diverse world of small-screen devices (mostly mobile) it is necessary to provide the information that Ajax solutions will need to adapt. This is also expressed in the OpenAjax whitepaper: http://www.openajax.org/whitepaper.html#Cross-device_applications_deskto p_and_mobile where you find the following: "Use a server-side, multi-target Ajax toolkit - To reach a large number of mobile devices, some of which ship with more limited features sets, web developers can take advantage of Ajax toolkits that provide a cross-platform abstraction layer. These toolkits adapt Ajax source into appropriate client-side instructions, such as mobile subsets of HTML+JavaScript, mobile SVG, or J2ME." So, what I have spoken about with respect to the aims of the W3C DDWG is in the context of enabling the OpenAjax Alliance achieve these goals. Currently, the work of the DDWG is motivated by the needs of the UI and user experience. Some Ajax is already playing a key role in improving the user experience, and this would be a very appropriate topic for dialog with the DDWG. Naturally, because the technology being developed by DDWG will be extensible, it is natural to consider how this could later be used for other non-UI purposes within the Ajax community. I hope this clarifies my point. Regards, ---Rotan. -----Original Message----- From: mobile-bounces at openajax.org [mailto:mobile-bounces at openajax.org] On Behalf Of Hamdi, Louenas Sent: 07 February 2007 13:41 To: OpenAjax Alliance discussion list on Mobile Ajax; marketing at openajax.org Subject: Re: [OpenAjaxMobile] iPhone boosts Ajax and fluid UIs Hello, You are right about the diversity and the difference in the capabilities that mobile browsers offer today but OpenAjax is not about the user experience and definitely not about UI. It's objective is mainly interoperability so as more than one app could run at the same time on the host browser. Am I wrong? --- Louenas -----Original Message----- From: mobile-bounces at openajax.org [mailto:mobile-bounces at openajax.org] On Behalf Of Rotan Hanrahan Sent: Wednesday, Feb 07, 2007 4:33 AM To: OpenAjax Alliance discussion list on Mobile Ajax; mobile at openajax.org; marketing at openajax.org Subject: Re: [OpenAjaxMobile] iPhone boosts Ajax and fluid UIs I draw your attention to a quote from the article: "Mobile versions of Ajax applications have, to date, been hard to implement and usually need a whole new code base - in contrast to the simplicity of porting Flash applications to mobile architectures using Flash Lite." One of the challenges for a mobile version of Ajax is the considerable diversity present in the mobile domain. It is usually sufficient in the PC world to have a few conditions built into the scripts to take care of the handful of differences between browsers. In the mobile domain this problem is *considerably* greater. Furthermore, given the experience with the normal content rendering differences, the necessary conditional logic in the scripts would expand the payload beyond that which the mobile device/network would usefully manage. A solution could be to make intelligent decisions about script and presentation resources at the server side, so that a tailored Ajax experience can be delivered to the mobile device. This will require reliable knowledge about the device capabilities to be available to the server (in real time). It is this kind of scenario that the W3C's DDWG (Device Description working group) is hoping to resolve. The group is concentrating on the needs of content adaptation, not process (script) adaptation, but extensibility will be there from the start. This means that other interests can extend the technology to embrace their requirements. So, the question for Ajax people is this: what information about the mobile device would I need to know in order to (automatically) tailor my Ajax solution to maximize the end user experience? When you have some answers to this question, consider sharing your insights with the DDWG. ---Rotan ________________________________ From: mobile-bounces at openajax.org on behalf of Jon Ferraiolo Sent: Tue 06/02/2007 16:43 To: mobile at openajax.org; marketing at openajax.org Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] iPhone boosts Ajax and fluid UIs http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/01/iphone_boosts_ajax/ Thanks to Louenas for pointing out this article. Jon _______________________________________________ mobile mailing list mobile at openajax.org http://openajax.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile _______________________________________________ mobile mailing list mobile at openajax.org http://openajax.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile _______________________________________________ marketing mailing list marketing at openajax.org http://openajax.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20070207/826d9fbf/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: graycol.gif Type: image/gif Size: 105 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20070207/826d9fbf/attachment-0003.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pic17646.gif Type: image/gif Size: 1255 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20070207/826d9fbf/attachment-0004.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ecblank.gif Type: image/gif Size: 45 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20070207/826d9fbf/attachment-0005.gif From jferrai at us.ibm.com Thu Feb 15 09:38:19 2007 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2007 09:38:19 -0800 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] SDTimes article on Ajax that mentions OpenAjax and Mobile Ajax Message-ID: Interesting article on Ajax, with some quotes from some OpenAjax members, including: Zimbra (Scott Dietzen) Adobe (Jeff Whatcott) IBM (Rod Smith and me - or was that really David Boloker and me?) TIBCO (Kevin Hakman) Jackbe (John Crupi) The comments about Mobile Ajax are at the very bottom. http://www.sdtimes.com/article/special-20070215-01.html Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20070215/00fa7bee/attachment.html From jferrai at us.ibm.com Tue Feb 20 08:49:08 2007 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2007 08:49:08 -0800 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Fw: my blog about our meeting last week at 3GSM/vodafone .. Message-ID: There was a (mini) Mobile Ajax Summit organized by Vodafone at last week's 3GSM World Congress. Ajit Joakar, author of Mobile Web 2.0, was present and has blogged about the event and provides his thoughts. Jon ----- Forwarded by Jon Ferraiolo/Menlo Park/IBM on 02/20/2007 08:46 AM ----- Hello all As discussed, here is my blog/article about the meeting last week http://opengardensblog.futuretext.com/archives/2007/02/the_long_tail_a.html Comments welcome and I shall continue to enhance it - both from feedback from the group and also externally - by inviting specific people to comment more. Longer term, I want to extend the same set of articles to other specific ideas(Mobile Ajax, convergence, WICD etc) i.e. it will be a much more collaborative effort going forward. kind rgds Ajit -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20070220/d6d959cd/attachment.html