From Andrew.Sledd at ikivo.com Thu Oct 9 05:55:09 2008 From: Andrew.Sledd at ikivo.com (Andrew Sledd) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 14:55:09 +0200 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Reminder today's Mobile TF Conf call and call in information Message-ID: <234EB4699C751A4A95DF4FD8D041BBFD01017BA7@SESTHSRV10.zoomon.local> Hi all, Just a reminder of the call in details and some links to relevant discussion items. Andy Minutes of previous telcon http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_Minutes_2008-09- 25 See also updates to Jon's Mobile Device APIs Style Guide on the wiki (http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_Device_APIs_Style_Guide ). ==================================================================== Call Time: 9amPT, noonET, 5pm London, 6pm Paris Passcode: 460566 Conference Access: Toll free: 1-888-619-1583 Toll: 1-719-457-1414 International toll free - Argentina: 0800 666 3149 International toll free - Australia: 1 800 105 680 International toll free - Austria: 0 800 291 941 International toll free - Belgium: 0 800 75 240 International toll free - Chile: 123 0020 9725 International toll free - China, Northern Region: 10 800 714 1201 International toll free - China, Southern Region: 10 800 140 1180 International toll free - Colombia: 01 800 518 0789 International toll free - Costa Rica: 0800 015 0616 International toll free - Czech Republic: 800 700 294 International toll free - Denmark: 80 886 215 International toll free - Dominican Republic: 1 888 751 4488 International toll free - Ecuador: 1 800 020 321 International toll free - France: 0 800 90 0161 International toll free - Germany: 0 800 181 9019 International toll free - Greece: 00 800 161 2205 5955 International toll free - Hong Kong: 800 901 110 International toll free - Hungary: 06 800 162 50 International toll free - India: 000 800 1006 980 International toll free - Indonesia: 001 803 017 5955 International toll free - Ireland: 1 800 760 547 International toll free - Israel: 1 809 246 041 International toll free - Italy: 800 873 739 International toll free - Japan: 00531 16 0844 International toll free - Lithuania: 8 800 3 05 25 International toll free - Luxembourg: 800 2 7665 International toll free - Malaysia: 1 800 813 714 International toll free - Mexico: 001 800 514 5955 International toll free - Monaco: 800 93 416 International toll free - Netherlands: 0 800 023 5303 International toll free - New Zealand: 0 800 451 015 International toll free - Norway: 800 196 65 International toll free - Panama: 00 800 226 5955 International toll free - Poland: 00 800 111 49 58 International toll free - Portugal: 800 819 728 International toll free - Russia: 810 800 2704 1012 International toll free - Singapore: 800 101 2002 International toll free - Slovenia: 0 800 80203 International toll free - South Africa: 0 800 980 988 International toll free - South Korea: 003 0813 1963 International toll free - Spain: 900 947 604 International toll free - Sweden: 02 079 7556 International toll free - Switzerland: 0 800 564 397 International toll free - Thailand: 001 800 156 205 5955 International toll free - Trinidad-Tobago: 1 800 205 5955 International toll free - UK: 0 808 101 1146 International toll free - Uruguay: 0004 019 0188 International toll free - Venezuela: 0 800 100 8300 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20081009/a25b02aa/attachment.html From paddy.byers at gmail.com Thu Oct 9 06:50:56 2008 From: paddy.byers at gmail.com (Paddy Byers) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 14:50:56 +0100 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Reminder today's Mobile TF Conf call and call in information In-Reply-To: <234EB4699C751A4A95DF4FD8D041BBFD01017BA7@SESTHSRV10.zoomon.local> References: <234EB4699C751A4A95DF4FD8D041BBFD01017BA7@SESTHSRV10.zoomon.local> Message-ID: <59db1b5a0810090650u698971bfl4453e59b76274256@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Sorry, but I'm not going to be able to make it today. Paddy On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 1:55 PM, Andrew Sledd wrote: > Hi all, > Just a reminder of the call in details and some links to relevant > discussion items. > Andy > > Minutes of previous telcon > http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_Minutes_2008-09- 25 > > See also updates to Jon's Mobile Device APIs Style Guide on the wiki ( > http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_Device_APIs_Style_Guide). > > ==================================================================== > > Call Time: 9amPT, noonET, 5pm London, 6pm Paris > > Passcode: 460566 > Conference Access: > Toll free: 1-888-619-1583 > Toll: 1-719-457-1414 > > International toll free - Argentina: 0800 666 3149 > International toll free - Australia: 1 800 105 680 > International toll free - Austria: 0 800 291 941 > International toll free - Belgium: 0 800 75 240 > International toll free - Chile: 123 0020 9725 > International toll free - China, Northern Region: 10 800 714 1201 > International toll free - China, Southern Region: 10 800 140 1180 > International toll free - Colombia: 01 800 518 0789 > International toll free - Costa Rica: 0800 015 0616 > International toll free - Czech Republic: 800 700 294 > International toll free - Denmark: 80 886 215 > International toll free - Dominican Republic: 1 888 751 4488 > International toll free - Ecuador: 1 800 020 321 > International toll free - France: 0 800 90 0161 > International toll free - Germany: 0 800 181 9019 > International toll free - Greece: 00 800 161 2205 5955 > International toll free - Hong Kong: 800 901 110 > International toll free - Hungary: 06 800 162 50 > International toll free - India: 000 800 1006 980 > International toll free - Indonesia: 001 803 017 5955 > International toll free - Ireland: 1 800 760 547 > International toll free - Israel: 1 809 246 041 > International toll free - Italy: 800 873 739 > International toll free - Japan: 00531 16 0844 > International toll free - Lithuania: 8 800 3 05 25 > International toll free - Luxembourg: 800 2 7665 > International toll free - Malaysia: 1 800 813 714 > International toll free - Mexico: 001 800 514 5955 > International toll free - Monaco: 800 93 416 > International toll free - Netherlands: 0 800 023 5303 > International toll free - New Zealand: 0 800 451 015 > International toll free - Norway: 800 196 65 > International toll free - Panama: 00 800 226 5955 > International toll free - Poland: 00 800 111 49 58 > International toll free - Portugal: 800 819 728 > International toll free - Russia: 810 800 2704 1012 > International toll free - Singapore: 800 101 2002 > International toll free - Slovenia: 0 800 80203 > International toll free - South Africa: 0 800 980 988 > International toll free - South Korea: 003 0813 1963 > International toll free - Spain: 900 947 604 > International toll free - Sweden: 02 079 7556 > International toll free - Switzerland: 0 800 564 397 > International toll free - Thailand: 001 800 156 205 5955 > International toll free - Trinidad-Tobago: 1 800 205 5955 > International toll free - UK: 0 808 101 1146 > International toll free - Uruguay: 0004 019 0188 > International toll free - Venezuela: 0 800 100 8300 > > > > > _______________________________________________ > mobile mailing list > mobile at openajax.org > http://openajax.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20081009/c26f4ebf/attachment.html From guillermo.caudevilla at vodafone.com Thu Oct 9 07:24:15 2008 From: guillermo.caudevilla at vodafone.com (Caudevilla, Guillermo, VF-ES (gcaudev)) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 16:24:15 +0200 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Reminder today's Mobile TF Conf call and callin information In-Reply-To: <59db1b5a0810090650u698971bfl4453e59b76274256@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5D15570EE5B94A419F79FD3A2ABF223F017B65BC@ESM9-MXMB05.vf-es.internal.vodafone.com> Same here. I can?t join today. Guillermo Caudevilla Laliena R&D Engineer Vodafone Group Research & Development Mobile: + 34 610 513898 Fax: + 34 974 215267 Email:guillermo.caudevilla at vodafone.com Web: www.betavine.net Mobile web: betavine.mobi Alternative contact: Unai Labirua, unai.labirua at vodafone.com R&D Software Lab in Huesca Parque Tecnol?gico WALQA Ctra. Zaragoza, Km 566. 22197 Cuarte, HUESCA (SPAIN) Vodafone Group Services Limited Registered Office: Vodafone House, The Connection, Newbury, Berkshire, RG14 2FN Registered in England No 3802001 ________________________________ From: mobile-bounces at openajax.org [mailto:mobile-bounces at openajax.org] On Behalf Of Paddy Byers Sent: jueves, 09 de octubre de 2008 15:51 To: OpenAjax Alliance discussion list on Mobile Ajax Subject: Re: [OpenAjaxMobile] Reminder today's Mobile TF Conf call and callin information Hi, Sorry, but I'm not going to be able to make it today. Paddy On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 1:55 PM, Andrew Sledd wrote: Hi all, Just a reminder of the call in details and some links to relevant discussion items. Andy Minutes of previous telcon http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_Minutes_2008-09- 25 See also updates to Jon's Mobile Device APIs Style Guide on the wiki (http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_Device_APIs_Style_Guide ). ==================================================================== Call Time: 9amPT, noonET, 5pm London, 6pm Paris Passcode: 460566 Conference Access: Toll free: 1-888-619-1583 Toll: 1-719-457-1414 International toll free - Argentina: 0800 666 3149 International toll free - Australia: 1 800 105 680 International toll free - Austria: 0 800 291 941 International toll free - Belgium: 0 800 75 240 International toll free - Chile: 123 0020 9725 International toll free - China, Northern Region: 10 800 714 1201 International toll free - China, Southern Region: 10 800 140 1180 International toll free - Colombia: 01 800 518 0789 International toll free - Costa Rica: 0800 015 0616 International toll free - Czech Republic: 800 700 294 International toll free - Denmark: 80 886 215 International toll free - Dominican Republic: 1 888 751 4488 International toll free - Ecuador: 1 800 020 321 International toll free - France: 0 800 90 0161 International toll free - Germany: 0 800 181 9019 International toll free - Greece: 00 800 161 2205 5955 International toll free - Hong Kong: 800 901 110 International toll free - Hungary: 06 800 162 50 International toll free - India: 000 800 1006 980 International toll free - Indonesia: 001 803 017 5955 International toll free - Ireland: 1 800 760 547 International toll free - Israel: 1 809 246 041 International toll free - Italy: 800 873 739 International toll free - Japan: 00531 16 0844 International toll free - Lithuania: 8 800 3 05 25 International toll free - Luxembourg: 800 2 7665 International toll free - Malaysia: 1 800 813 714 International toll free - Mexico: 001 800 514 5955 International toll free - Monaco: 800 93 416 International toll free - Netherlands: 0 800 023 5303 International toll free - New Zealand: 0 800 451 015 International toll free - Norway: 800 196 65 International toll free - Panama: 00 800 226 5955 International toll free - Poland: 00 800 111 49 58 International toll free - Portugal: 800 819 728 International toll free - Russia: 810 800 2704 1012 International toll free - Singapore: 800 101 2002 International toll free - Slovenia: 0 800 80203 International toll free - South Africa: 0 800 980 988 International toll free - South Korea: 003 0813 1963 International toll free - Spain: 900 947 604 International toll free - Sweden: 02 079 7556 International toll free - Switzerland: 0 800 564 397 International toll free - Thailand: 001 800 156 205 5955 International toll free - Trinidad-Tobago: 1 800 205 5955 International toll free - UK: 0 808 101 1146 International toll free - Uruguay: 0004 019 0188 International toll free - Venezuela: 0 800 100 8300 _______________________________________________ mobile mailing list mobile at openajax.org http://openajax.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile Confidencialidad Este correo electr?nico y, en su caso, cualquier fichero anexo al mismo, contiene informaci?n de car?cter confidencial exclusivamente dirigida a su destinatario o destinatarios y propiedad de Vodafone Espa?a. Queda prohibida su divulgaci?n, copia o distribuci?n a terceros sin la previa autorizaci?n escrita de Vodafone Espa?a, en virtud de la legislaci?n vigente. En el caso de haber recibido este correo electr?nico por error, se ruega notificar inmediatamente esta circunstancia mediante reenv?o a la direcci?n electr?nica del remitente y la destrucci?n del mismo. Confidentiality The information in this e-mail and in any attachments is classified as Vodafone Espa?a Confidential and Proprietary Information and solely for the attention and use of the named addressee(s). You are hereby notified that any dissemination, distribution or copy of this communication is prohibited without the prior written consent of Vodafone Espa?a and is s strictly prohibited by law. If you have received this communication in error, please, notify the sender by reply e-mail. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20081009/02474181/attachment-0001.html From jferrai at us.ibm.com Thu Oct 9 10:23:51 2008 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Thu, 9 Oct 2008 10:23:51 -0700 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Minutes 2008-10-09 Message-ID: Here are the minutes from today's phone call. I have updated the style guide per the two minor changes that we talked about in the phone call. ---------------------------------- Mobile Minutes 2008-10-09 URL: http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_Minutes_2008-10-09 Attendees Andrew Sledd, Ikivo Rotan Hanrahan, MobileAware Jon Ferraiolo, IBM Minutes (continuing review of http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_Device_APIs_Style_Guide) Andy: Rotan, are you happy with the responses to your questions from our last call? Rotan: Yes. I have a couple of minor things with the document though. At the beginning, let's replace "ignoring W3C" with "not being constrained by W3C". Jon: I expect everyone will agree with that change. I'll make that change. Rotan: Second, the document talks about snippets of JavaScript that can be placed on mobile devices. But it is hard to copy and paste on mobile phones. Maybe we could have a repository of JavaScript snippets. (This is in the section on widespread use of Ajax libraries) On mobile, often there is no ability to view source. Andy: Isn't it true that everything that is available on mobile phones can also be viewed from desktop browsers? Rotan: Not. There is often a server transcoder that delivers different content to mobile phones. Often we deliver different snippets for mobile. The mobile content is only available on desktop when there is a mobile emulator. Jon: I see the value of having a standard repository of snippets, but the cost might be high. The snippets often are subject to change and are developed and maintained by one particular source. For example, Adobe maintains a snippet for making Flash work in HTML. Something like 50 lines that deals with browser differences such as embed vs object and that might workaround some IP issues. When things changes such as a new browser the snippet will change and Adobe will notify their community. If we created a list, it would usually just be links to other sites and would be difficult to maintain. Rotan: Maybe we should provide guidance that talk about the various snippets, pointing out that the tried-and-true view source and copy/paste techniques do not work on mobile devices. Jon: Multiple ways to address this view source problem. Here are two. (1) Tell mobile vendors that they should have emulators and that the emulators should have a view source feature, (2) Tell snippet developers to make sure that their snippets are discoverable on the Web Rotan: Better to go after the snippet developers. We want to encourage Ajax libraries on mobile devices, so we need to provide them with best practices to encourage good outcomes. They need to advertise their APIs via examples and snippets. PROPOSED NEW BULLET: Implementers of mobile device APIs should make sure that any JavaScript snippets that are needed by their implementation are discoverable on the Web. (The motivation behind this is that, unlike the desktop, mobile developers often cannot rely on view source and copy/paste of the HTML that is delivered to the mobile phone.) Jon: Update on OMTP discussions. In email with Nick Allott, it sounds like the OMTP is debating on whether direct or indirect APIs are best. Andy: Last phone call we decided to say that the direct approach is the most predominant in Ajax libraries today Jon: I suggested to Nick that OMTP engage with key folks at the W3C so that they get early feedback and don't find themselves having put in a ton of work only to have W3C leadership tell them several months from now that they screwed up and things need to change. The good news is that there are two opportunities for OMTP and W3C people to engage, the W3C Plenary in two weeks and the W3C Security workshop in December. Jon: The other update is that I will finally have discussions about BONDI security with some IBM security experts on Monday. Rotan: OMTP people will definitely be at the Plenary. Nick will do a lightning talk on OMTP and W3C overlap. Andy: So what are our next steps? Jon: I think we should play things by ear. Wait until after the W3C Plenary to see what happens. Andy: Next phone call was in two weeks. I am unavailable then. Jon: I'm also unavailable, and that's the week of the Tech Plenary. Rotan: Perhaps we can send comments to WebAps and Widgets to ask for review. Andy/Rotan: Ask for formal feedback on the style guide. Jon: Good idea. Ask for general review, but in particular a response on the question of direct vs indirect. But I want to coordinate with Nick Allott on this so we don't appear to be working at odds with each other. How best to do this? Private email to chairs or public email to group? Rotan: Send a note to the chairs beforehand and ask about best mechanism. Make as formal as possible. Need to have an audit trail. Jon: OK, I'll ask Nick about this first and then send emails to the chairs. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20081009/92281491/attachment.html From jferrai at us.ibm.com Wed Oct 15 16:19:11 2008 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Wed, 15 Oct 2008 16:19:11 -0700 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Shaping the Future of Mobile Ajax invitation Message-ID: IBM and Vodafone will be hosting a half-day meeting the morning of Nov. 5 in San Francisco where industry leaders will present ideas and work towards consensus about how best to shape the future of the Open Web on mobile devices such that: (1) the next-generation of innovative mobile applications building on open technologies will get to market as quickly as possible (2) mobile developers (web, widget, and installed applications) will realize as close to a write-once, run-anywhere value proposition across a wide range of mobile devices The goal is to raise the least-common-denominator Ajax functionality, push the mobile industry towards interoperability, and do all of this on an accelerated timeline. One of the proposals that will be discussed is whether it makes sense for the industry to establish a "Mobile Ajax Ready" conformance brand, along with a series of "acid tests" that can be used to verify conformance. The ultimate "customer" to benefit from this work would be Ajax developers: the people who are creating Ajax-powered web pages, Ajax-powered widgets, or installed mobile applications that use HTML and JavaScript to deliver the user experience. Day: Wednesday, Nov 5, 2008 Time: 8:30am - noon (US-PT) Location: IBM offices, 425 Market Street, San Francisco, CA 94105 (room 17-201) Moderators: Jon Ferraiolo (IBM & OpenAjax Alliance) and Daniel Appelquist (Vodafone): #Attendees: 20 (max) RSVP: Send RSVP via email to and Phone attendance: We will have a conference call set up for people who cannot attend in person We already have acceptances from Dion Almaer and Ben Galbraith, the founders of Ajaxian.com. Attendance is limited and will be available on a first-come, first-serve basis. The moderators may have to restrict attendance to one person per company. Thanks. Jon Ferraiolo and Daniel Appelquist -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20081015/daa11bb0/attachment.html From jferrai at us.ibm.com Fri Oct 17 10:36:02 2008 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 10:36:02 -0700 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] FW: OpenAjax Seeks feedback on their "Mobile Device APIs Style Guide" In-Reply-To: <77E1EB17-A720-4405-9CFA-075174E5845D@nokia.com> Message-ID: Per our resolution at our last Mobile Task Force phone call, I have requested W3C review of our Mobile Device APIs Style Guide. Here is what came out of my request. Jon public-webapps-request at w3.org wrote on 10/17/2008 09:06:14 AM: > > All - the OpenAjax Alliance (OAA) is seeking comments on their Mobile > Device APIs Style Guide: > > > > Please see Jon's e-mails below: first includes some rationale for > OAA's request and the second identifies some key questions/issues. > > If you have any comments, John requests them by November 15. If you > have write access to mobile at openajax.org, use that address (and > please CC public-webapps); otherwise send the comments to Jon and CC > public-webapps, and he will forward your comments to OAA's mobile > list, archived at: > > > > WG Members - if there is interest in: a) consolidating comments on > behalf of the WG and/or b) discussing this document in a "meeting" > then some combination of me, Charles, Mike or Doug will facilitate. > Please let us know if there is such interest. > > -Regards, Art Barstow > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: "ext Jon Ferraiolo" > > Date: October 17, 2008 11:18:15 AM EDT > > To: Arthur Barstow > > Cc: Charles McCathieNevile , Mike Smith > > , Doug Schepers , "Pollington, David, > > VF-Group" , "Appelquist, Daniel, VF- > > Group" , "Nick Allott" > > > > Subject: Re: Request for W3C review of the OpenAjax Mobile Device > > APIs Style Guide > > > > (Add Dan and David from Vodafone and Nick from OMTP) > > Art, > > The primary reason for asking W3C to review the OpenAjax style > > guide isn't because OpenAjax wants feedback, it is because it > > appears that there are fragmentation of API approaches across > > various W3C and OMTP efforts, and the style guide provides a > > vehicle for focusing on those differences and working towards > > consistency in the efforts by those two organizations. > > > > The primary motivation behind requesting group discussion within a > > committee setting versus public mailing list is because we think > > that will be an effective process to achieve the end result of > > avoiding fragmentation of API approaches. If the discussion only > > occurs on the public mailing list, then some people will say A, > > others will say B, and others will say C, with no conclusion. > > Remember how unsuccessful Access Control was in reaching > > unification on the public lists? It wasn't until people sat > > together in a room face-to-face that decisions were made. Access > > Control reflecting fragmentation of opinion within a single > > technology area. Things are worse here because you have multiple > > spec, multiple working groups and multiple standards organizations, > > particular, W3C and OMTP. If people don't agree on overall > > approaches for APIs, then you'll have strong personalities on each > > separate committee trying to ram through the API approach that they > > like, and hoping that they can force the rest of the world to match > > their vision by stonewalling behind arguments such as "too late to > > change" and "devices are already shipping with these APIs". > > > > Consistent APIs are important on their own, but because of security > > implications around allowing web pages and web-connected widgets to > > gain access to device capabilities, the industry needs to converge > > on a common approach to how to establish security frameworks and > > policies. Such a common approach will be challenging enough even if > > there are consistent APIs across across the range of device APIs, > > but will be true chaos if each different spec takes a different > > approach. > > > > I'm OK with whatever you decide to do, but our feeling over at > > OpenAjax Alliance is that the industry is more likely to arrive at > > a good outcome at an early date by making sure that all of the > > groups involved in device APIs recognize the need for consistent > > APIs, become aware of the other similar initiatives in the industry > > (particularly, making sure W3C committees are aware of OMTP's > > initiatives with BONDI), and are aware of the different API > > approaches that are under consideration. > > > > Thanks. > > Jon > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > > > From: "ext Jon Ferraiolo" > > > Date: October 16, 2008 3:30:07 PM EDT > > > To: Arthur Barstow , Charles McCathieNevile > > > > > > Subject: Request for W3C review of the OpenAjax Mobile Device APIs > > > Style Guide > > > > > > I am writing this email on behalf of the OpenAjax Alliance. > > > > > > The OpenAjax Alliance' Mobile Task Force requests that the W3C Web > > > Applications WG review and send formal feedback to the OpenAjax > > > Alliance on the following document that we have written: > > > > > > * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_Device_APIs_Style_Guide > > > > > > The above document provides a set of guidelines to the industry > > > about how to design good JavaScript APIs for mobile device > > > services. OpenAjax Alliance has developed this wiki page in > > > response to requests from some of the leadership at OMTP, which > > > requested guidelines from the Ajax community on how to design > > > friendly and useful APIs. The recommendations reflect our best > > > understanding of requirements around Mobile Device APIs found in > > > the BONDI documents, and also informed by earlier requirements work > > > down at OpenAjax Alliance. Note that our guidelines are totally > > > JavaScript-centric because that's our focus area. We recognize that > > > W3C has a broader constituency, and therefore some of our proposed > > > guidelines might not be the optimal direction for W3C due to > > > various factors that OpenAjax Alliance did not take into account. > > > > > > The main reason for requesting formal review is to promote early > > > discussion across the W3C, along with OMTP, about some key API > > > design questions that effect multiple technology initiatives at the > > > two organizations that involve providing script access to device > > > capabilities (e.g., location, address book, file system, phone > > > dialer, connectivity status, battery status, bluetooth, camera, > > > local email, and local messaging such as SMS and MMS). We can all > > > agree that the industry should have consistency across similar > > > APIs; however, due to simultaneous work efforts across multiple > > > working groups within two major standards bodies (W3C and OMTP), > > > there is a risk of different API approaches coming out of the > > > different working groups. > > > > > > The key activities at the W3C that I believe are most relevant are: > > > > > > * The WebApps WG, which of course is working on a variety of APIs > > > * The Widgets subgroup within the WebApps WG, which defines widget > > > APIs > > > * The Geolocation WG, which has an initial set of location APIs, > > > but doesn't appear to be meeting at the Tech Plenary > > > > > > Probably the most important question is whether device APIs should > > > be use direct approaches (e.g., the geolocation spec include this > > > API: navigator.geolocation.getCurrentPosition(): see [1]) or > > > indirect approaches (e.g., the Widgets APIs spec involves > > > requesting an API handler and then invoking APIs off of that > > > handler: see [2]). However, we would appreciate feedback on all of > > > the key points within the style guide document. > > > > > > We believe that the best process is to it to get various key > > > stakeholders participants in a cross-group discussion (the WebApps > > > guys, the Widgets guys, the Geolocation guys, and people from the > > > OMTP) to see if this issue can be resolved. The Plenary offers a > > > unique opportunity for such a discussion. However, if this request > > > is coming in too late or the WebApps WG is fully booked already and > > > has no open slots, then as a backup we recommend a cross-group > > > coordination phone call soon after the Plenary. > > > > > > If you feel it is appropriate, feel free to forward this email to > > > the appropriate WebApps mailing list. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > Jon Ferraiolo > > > On behalf of the Mobile Task Force at OpenAjax Alliance > > > > > > [1] http://dev.w3.org/geo/api/spec-source.html > > > [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008JulSep/ > > 0604.html > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20081017/70179e6b/attachment.html From rotan.hanrahan at mobileaware.com Fri Oct 17 11:07:57 2008 From: rotan.hanrahan at mobileaware.com (Rotan Hanrahan) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 19:07:57 +0100 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] FW: OpenAjax Seeks feedback on their "Mobile Device APIs Style Guide" In-Reply-To: References: <77E1EB17-A720-4405-9CFA-075174E5845D@nokia.com>, Message-ID: <83722B37-F45B-4FC4-B0AD-8080234C559C@mimectl> Good, now the matter is on the table. It should get some traction at the Plenary, assuming the various agenda are not over-filled. While the request was for discussion in a committee setting, the dialog will be reflected in a public forum, as witnessed by the fact that Art's message is now on a public archive [1]. This is not unusual. A lot of the work actually takes place through internal lists, teleconferences and other group processes, while still generally keeping the public aspect in sync. I will speak with Matt Womer next week, and get some progress on a dialog with Geo-Location WG. ---Rotan [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0123.html ________________________________ From: Jon Ferraiolo Sent: Fri 17/10/2008 18:36 To: mobile at openajax.org Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] FW: OpenAjax Seeks feedback on their "Mobile Device APIs Style Guide" Per our resolution at our last Mobile Task Force phone call, I have requested W3C review of our Mobile Device APIs Style Guide. Here is what came out of my request. Jon public-webapps-request at w3.org wrote on 10/17/2008 09:06:14 AM: > > All - the OpenAjax Alliance (OAA) is seeking comments on their Mobile > Device APIs Style Guide: > > > > Please see Jon's e-mails below: first includes some rationale for > OAA's request and the second identifies some key questions/issues. > > If you have any comments, John requests them by November 15. If you > have write access to mobile at openajax.org, use that address (and > please CC public-webapps); otherwise send the comments to Jon and CC > public-webapps, and he will forward your comments to OAA's mobile > list, archived at: > > > > WG Members - if there is interest in: a) consolidating comments on > behalf of the WG and/or b) discussing this document in a "meeting" > then some combination of me, Charles, Mike or Doug will facilitate. > Please let us know if there is such interest. > > -Regards, Art Barstow > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: "ext Jon Ferraiolo" > > Date: October 17, 2008 11:18:15 AM EDT > > To: Arthur Barstow > > Cc: Charles McCathieNevile , Mike Smith > > , Doug Schepers , "Pollington, David, > > VF-Group" , "Appelquist, Daniel, VF- > > Group" , "Nick Allott" > > > > Subject: Re: Request for W3C review of the OpenAjax Mobile Device > > APIs Style Guide > > > > (Add Dan and David from Vodafone and Nick from OMTP) > > Art, > > The primary reason for asking W3C to review the OpenAjax style > > guide isn't because OpenAjax wants feedback, it is because it > > appears that there are fragmentation of API approaches across > > various W3C and OMTP efforts, and the style guide provides a > > vehicle for focusing on those differences and working towards > > consistency in the efforts by those two organizations. > > > > The primary motivation behind requesting group discussion within a > > committee setting versus public mailing list is because we think > > that will be an effective process to achieve the end result of > > avoiding fragmentation of API approaches. If the discussion only > > occurs on the public mailing list, then some people will say A, > > others will say B, and others will say C, with no conclusion. > > Remember how unsuccessful Access Control was in reaching > > unification on the public lists? It wasn't until people sat > > together in a room face-to-face that decisions were made. Access > > Control reflecting fragmentation of opinion within a single > > technology area. Things are worse here because you have multiple > > spec, multiple working groups and multiple standards organizations, > > particular, W3C and OMTP. If people don't agree on overall > > approaches for APIs, then you'll have strong personalities on each > > separate committee trying to ram through the API approach that they > > like, and hoping that they can force the rest of the world to match > > their vision by stonewalling behind arguments such as "too late to > > change" and "devices are already shipping with these APIs". > > > > Consistent APIs are important on their own, but because of security > > implications around allowing web pages and web-connected widgets to > > gain access to device capabilities, the industry needs to converge > > on a common approach to how to establish security frameworks and > > policies. Such a common approach will be challenging enough even if > > there are consistent APIs across across the range of device APIs, > > but will be true chaos if each different spec takes a different > > approach. > > > > I'm OK with whatever you decide to do, but our feeling over at > > OpenAjax Alliance is that the industry is more likely to arrive at > > a good outcome at an early date by making sure that all of the > > groups involved in device APIs recognize the need for consistent > > APIs, become aware of the other similar initiatives in the industry > > (particularly, making sure W3C committees are aware of OMTP's > > initiatives with BONDI), and are aware of the different API > > approaches that are under consideration. > > > > Thanks. > > Jon > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > > > From: "ext Jon Ferraiolo" > > > Date: October 16, 2008 3:30:07 PM EDT > > > To: Arthur Barstow , Charles McCathieNevile > > > > > > Subject: Request for W3C review of the OpenAjax Mobile Device APIs > > > Style Guide > > > > > > I am writing this email on behalf of the OpenAjax Alliance. > > > > > > The OpenAjax Alliance' Mobile Task Force requests that the W3C Web > > > Applications WG review and send formal feedback to the OpenAjax > > > Alliance on the following document that we have written: > > > > > > * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_Device_APIs_Style_Guide > > > > > > The above document provides a set of guidelines to the industry > > > about how to design good JavaScript APIs for mobile device > > > services. OpenAjax Alliance has developed this wiki page in > > > response to requests from some of the leadership at OMTP, which > > > requested guidelines from the Ajax community on how to design > > > friendly and useful APIs. The recommendations reflect our best > > > understanding of requirements around Mobile Device APIs found in > > > the BONDI documents, and also informed by earlier requirements work > > > down at OpenAjax Alliance. Note that our guidelines are totally > > > JavaScript-centric because that's our focus area. We recognize that > > > W3C has a broader constituency, and therefore some of our proposed > > > guidelines might not be the optimal direction for W3C due to > > > various factors that OpenAjax Alliance did not take into account. > > > > > > The main reason for requesting formal review is to promote early > > > discussion across the W3C, along with OMTP, about some key API > > > design questions that effect multiple technology initiatives at the > > > two organizations that involve providing script access to device > > > capabilities (e.g., location, address book, file system, phone > > > dialer, connectivity status, battery status, bluetooth, camera, > > > local email, and local messaging such as SMS and MMS). We can all > > > agree that the industry should have consistency across similar > > > APIs; however, due to simultaneous work efforts across multiple > > > working groups within two major standards bodies (W3C and OMTP), > > > there is a risk of different API approaches coming out of the > > > different working groups. > > > > > > The key activities at the W3C that I believe are most relevant are: > > > > > > * The WebApps WG, which of course is working on a variety of APIs > > > * The Widgets subgroup within the WebApps WG, which defines widget > > > APIs > > > * The Geolocation WG, which has an initial set of location APIs, > > > but doesn't appear to be meeting at the Tech Plenary > > > > > > Probably the most important question is whether device APIs should > > > be use direct approaches (e.g., the geolocation spec include this > > > API: navigator.geolocation.getCurrentPosition(): see [1]) or > > > indirect approaches (e.g., the Widgets APIs spec involves > > > requesting an API handler and then invoking APIs off of that > > > handler: see [2]). However, we would appreciate feedback on all of > > > the key points within the style guide document. > > > > > > We believe that the best process is to it to get various key > > > stakeholders participants in a cross-group discussion (the WebApps > > > guys, the Widgets guys, the Geolocation guys, and people from the > > > OMTP) to see if this issue can be resolved. The Plenary offers a > > > unique opportunity for such a discussion. However, if this request > > > is coming in too late or the WebApps WG is fully booked already and > > > has no open slots, then as a backup we recommend a cross-group > > > coordination phone call soon after the Plenary. > > > > > > If you feel it is appropriate, feel free to forward this email to > > > the appropriate WebApps mailing list. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > Jon Ferraiolo > > > On behalf of the Mobile Task Force at OpenAjax Alliance > > > > > > [1] http://dev.w3.org/geo/api/spec-source.html > > > [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008JulSep/ > > 0604.html > > > > From jferrai at us.ibm.com Fri Oct 17 12:48:44 2008 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2008 12:48:44 -0700 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] FW: OpenAjax Seeks feedback on their "Mobile Device APIs Style Guide" In-Reply-To: <83722B37-F45B-4FC4-B0AD-8080234C559C@mimectl> Message-ID: Rotan, Thanks. I encourage you and anyone else on this list that will be at the W3C Plenary to get the movers and shakers to get the right people to focus on API consistency, whether they follow the guidelines in the style guide or not. Jon "Rotan Hanrahan" To Sent by: "OpenAjax Alliance discussion list mobile-bounces at op on Mobile Ajax" enajax.org cc 10/17/2008 11:07 Subject AM Re: [OpenAjaxMobile] FW: OpenAjax Seeks feedback on their "Mobile Device APIs Style Guide" Please respond to OpenAjax Alliance discussion list on Mobile Ajax Good, now the matter is on the table. It should get some traction at the Plenary, assuming the various agenda are not over-filled. While the request was for discussion in a committee setting, the dialog will be reflected in a public forum, as witnessed by the fact that Art's message is now on a public archive [1]. This is not unusual. A lot of the work actually takes place through internal lists, teleconferences and other group processes, while still generally keeping the public aspect in sync. I will speak with Matt Womer next week, and get some progress on a dialog with Geo-Location WG. ---Rotan [1] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008OctDec/0123.html ________________________________ From: Jon Ferraiolo Sent: Fri 17/10/2008 18:36 To: mobile at openajax.org Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] FW: OpenAjax Seeks feedback on their "Mobile Device APIs Style Guide" Per our resolution at our last Mobile Task Force phone call, I have requested W3C review of our Mobile Device APIs Style Guide. Here is what came out of my request. Jon public-webapps-request at w3.org wrote on 10/17/2008 09:06:14 AM: > > All - the OpenAjax Alliance (OAA) is seeking comments on their Mobile > Device APIs Style Guide: > > > > Please see Jon's e-mails below: first includes some rationale for > OAA's request and the second identifies some key questions/issues. > > If you have any comments, John requests them by November 15. If you > have write access to mobile at openajax.org, use that address (and > please CC public-webapps); otherwise send the comments to Jon and CC > public-webapps, and he will forward your comments to OAA's mobile > list, archived at: > > > > WG Members - if there is interest in: a) consolidating comments on > behalf of the WG and/or b) discussing this document in a "meeting" > then some combination of me, Charles, Mike or Doug will facilitate. > Please let us know if there is such interest. > > -Regards, Art Barstow > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > From: "ext Jon Ferraiolo" > > Date: October 17, 2008 11:18:15 AM EDT > > To: Arthur Barstow > > Cc: Charles McCathieNevile , Mike Smith > > , Doug Schepers , "Pollington, David, > > VF-Group" , "Appelquist, Daniel, VF- > > Group" , "Nick Allott" > > > > Subject: Re: Request for W3C review of the OpenAjax Mobile Device > > APIs Style Guide > > > > (Add Dan and David from Vodafone and Nick from OMTP) > > Art, > > The primary reason for asking W3C to review the OpenAjax style > > guide isn't because OpenAjax wants feedback, it is because it > > appears that there are fragmentation of API approaches across > > various W3C and OMTP efforts, and the style guide provides a > > vehicle for focusing on those differences and working towards > > consistency in the efforts by those two organizations. > > > > The primary motivation behind requesting group discussion within a > > committee setting versus public mailing list is because we think > > that will be an effective process to achieve the end result of > > avoiding fragmentation of API approaches. If the discussion only > > occurs on the public mailing list, then some people will say A, > > others will say B, and others will say C, with no conclusion. > > Remember how unsuccessful Access Control was in reaching > > unification on the public lists? It wasn't until people sat > > together in a room face-to-face that decisions were made. Access > > Control reflecting fragmentation of opinion within a single > > technology area. Things are worse here because you have multiple > > spec, multiple working groups and multiple standards organizations, > > particular, W3C and OMTP. If people don't agree on overall > > approaches for APIs, then you'll have strong personalities on each > > separate committee trying to ram through the API approach that they > > like, and hoping that they can force the rest of the world to match > > their vision by stonewalling behind arguments such as "too late to > > change" and "devices are already shipping with these APIs". > > > > Consistent APIs are important on their own, but because of security > > implications around allowing web pages and web-connected widgets to > > gain access to device capabilities, the industry needs to converge > > on a common approach to how to establish security frameworks and > > policies. Such a common approach will be challenging enough even if > > there are consistent APIs across across the range of device APIs, > > but will be true chaos if each different spec takes a different > > approach. > > > > I'm OK with whatever you decide to do, but our feeling over at > > OpenAjax Alliance is that the industry is more likely to arrive at > > a good outcome at an early date by making sure that all of the > > groups involved in device APIs recognize the need for consistent > > APIs, become aware of the other similar initiatives in the industry > > (particularly, making sure W3C committees are aware of OMTP's > > initiatives with BONDI), and are aware of the different API > > approaches that are under consideration. > > > > Thanks. > > Jon > > > > Begin forwarded message: > > > > > From: "ext Jon Ferraiolo" > > > Date: October 16, 2008 3:30:07 PM EDT > > > To: Arthur Barstow , Charles McCathieNevile > > > > > > Subject: Request for W3C review of the OpenAjax Mobile Device APIs > > > Style Guide > > > > > > I am writing this email on behalf of the OpenAjax Alliance. > > > > > > The OpenAjax Alliance' Mobile Task Force requests that the W3C Web > > > Applications WG review and send formal feedback to the OpenAjax > > > Alliance on the following document that we have written: > > > > > > * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_Device_APIs_Style_Guide > > > > > > The above document provides a set of guidelines to the industry > > > about how to design good JavaScript APIs for mobile device > > > services. OpenAjax Alliance has developed this wiki page in > > > response to requests from some of the leadership at OMTP, which > > > requested guidelines from the Ajax community on how to design > > > friendly and useful APIs. The recommendations reflect our best > > > understanding of requirements around Mobile Device APIs found in > > > the BONDI documents, and also informed by earlier requirements work > > > down at OpenAjax Alliance. Note that our guidelines are totally > > > JavaScript-centric because that's our focus area. We recognize that > > > W3C has a broader constituency, and therefore some of our proposed > > > guidelines might not be the optimal direction for W3C due to > > > various factors that OpenAjax Alliance did not take into account. > > > > > > The main reason for requesting formal review is to promote early > > > discussion across the W3C, along with OMTP, about some key API > > > design questions that effect multiple technology initiatives at the > > > two organizations that involve providing script access to device > > > capabilities (e.g., location, address book, file system, phone > > > dialer, connectivity status, battery status, bluetooth, camera, > > > local email, and local messaging such as SMS and MMS). We can all > > > agree that the industry should have consistency across similar > > > APIs; however, due to simultaneous work efforts across multiple > > > working groups within two major standards bodies (W3C and OMTP), > > > there is a risk of different API approaches coming out of the > > > different working groups. > > > > > > The key activities at the W3C that I believe are most relevant are: > > > > > > * The WebApps WG, which of course is working on a variety of APIs > > > * The Widgets subgroup within the WebApps WG, which defines widget > > > APIs > > > * The Geolocation WG, which has an initial set of location APIs, > > > but doesn't appear to be meeting at the Tech Plenary > > > > > > Probably the most important question is whether device APIs should > > > be use direct approaches (e.g., the geolocation spec include this > > > API: navigator.geolocation.getCurrentPosition(): see [1]) or > > > indirect approaches (e.g., the Widgets APIs spec involves > > > requesting an API handler and then invoking APIs off of that > > > handler: see [2]). However, we would appreciate feedback on all of > > > the key points within the style guide document. > > > > > > We believe that the best process is to it to get various key > > > stakeholders participants in a cross-group discussion (the WebApps > > > guys, the Widgets guys, the Geolocation guys, and people from the > > > OMTP) to see if this issue can be resolved. The Plenary offers a > > > unique opportunity for such a discussion. However, if this request > > > is coming in too late or the WebApps WG is fully booked already and > > > has no open slots, then as a backup we recommend a cross-group > > > coordination phone call soon after the Plenary. > > > > > > If you feel it is appropriate, feel free to forward this email to > > > the appropriate WebApps mailing list. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > Jon Ferraiolo > > > On behalf of the Mobile Task Force at OpenAjax Alliance > > > > > > [1] http://dev.w3.org/geo/api/spec-source.html > > > [2] http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webapps/2008JulSep/ > > 0604.html > > > > _______________________________________________ mobile mailing list mobile at openajax.org http://openajax.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20081017/1a5ceba6/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: ecblank.gif Type: image/gif Size: 45 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20081017/1a5ceba6/attachment-0005.gif From jferrai at us.ibm.com Mon Nov 3 16:12:18 2008 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 16:12:18 -0800 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] REMINDER: Shaping the Future of Mobile Ajax invitation In-Reply-To: Message-ID: Hi everyone, Just a reminder that the Shaping the Future of Mobile Ajax meeting will happen this Wednesday morning in San Francisco. See below for logistics. One new bit of information is the phone number for people who will be dialing in: Phone attendance: Toll-free number in US: 1-888-619-1583, passcode 8524962301. (For phone #s for other countries, see http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_TF) On Wednesday afternoon, there will be an informal meeting in the same room among various people engaged in mobile standards activities to report on status and compare notes. The afternoon discussions will cover activities at OpenAjax Alliance, W3C and OMTP. I hope to hear some reports about any significant events that happened at the W3C Plenary, what's the progress report with OMTP BONDI, and whether anything happened with the JavaScript API Style Guide that we produced. Feel free to show up in person or on the phone - for the morning, the afternoon, or both. If you will be attending in person or on the phone, please RSVP to me if you will be attending mainly so I can give a heads up to security. Jon IBM and Vodafone will be hosting a half-day meeting the morning of Nov. 5 in San Francisco where industry leaders will present ideas and work towards consensus about how best to shape the future of the Open Web on mobile devices such that: (1) the next-generation of innovative mobile applications building on open technologies will get to market as quickly as possible (2) mobile developers (web, widget, and installed applications) will realize as close to a write-once, run-anywhere value proposition across a wide range of mobile devices The goal is to raise the least-common-denominator Ajax functionality, push the mobile industry towards interoperability, and do all of this on an accelerated timeline. One of the proposals that will be discussed is whether it makes sense for the industry to establish a "Mobile Ajax Ready" conformance brand, along with a series of "acid tests" that can be used to verify conformance. The ultimate "customer" to benefit from this work would be Ajax developers: the people who are creating Ajax-powered web pages, Ajax-powered widgets, or installed mobile applications that use HTML and JavaScript to deliver the user experience. Day: Wednesday, Nov 5, 2008 Time: 8:30am - noon (US-PT) Location: IBM offices, 425 Market Street, San Francisco, CA 94105 (room 17-201) Moderators: Jon Ferraiolo (IBM & OpenAjax Alliance) and Daniel Appelquist (Vodafone) #Attendees: 20 (max) RSVP: Send RSVP via email to and Phone attendance: We will have a conference call set up for people who cannot attend in person We already have acceptances from Dion Almaer and Ben Galbraith, the founders of Ajaxian.com. Attendance is limited and will be available on a first-come, first-serve basis. The moderators may have to restrict attendance to one person per company. Thanks. Jon Ferraiolo and Daniel Appelquist _______________________________________________ mobile mailing list mobile at openajax.org http://openajax.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20081103/c214a420/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: graycol.gif Type: image/gif Size: 105 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20081103/c214a420/attachment.gif From jferrai at us.ibm.com Wed Nov 5 18:34:19 2008 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2008 18:34:19 -0800 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Adhoc Mobile Ajax meeting notes Message-ID: Here are my notes from an adhoc, informal meeting today in San Francisco where the primary subject was "Shaping the Future of Mobile Ajax". Attendees: Jon Ferraiolo, IBM/OpenAjax Dan Appelquist, Vodafone Doug Crockford, Yahoo Eric Portner, IBM, Lead Architect, Mobile Browser Products John Hardi, Motricity Nick Allott, CTO OMTP David Boloker, IBM, Emerging Technologies Dan Zucker, Nokia Last minute regrets from Charles Wiles of Google. (Not sure why Dion Almaer and Ben Galbraith of Mozilla didn't join the call.) Discussion: I described the goal of the meeting, which was to have a conversation about the current state of Mobile Ajax, the dangers from platform fragmentation and slow adoption of key features, and whether there is anything we can do and should do to improve things. The main objective is to allow mobile web developers to maximize both "reach" and "rich" while minimizing development and testing cost. Everyone introduced themselves. We spent about 1.5 hours going through the slide decks found at: http://www.openajax.org/slidedecks/MobileAjax-20081104.ppt http://www.openajax.org/slidedecks/BONDI-MobileAjax-20081105.ppt We spent about 45 minutes on BONDI. Finally, we talked about what we might do to achieve the stated goal: "The goal is to raise the least-common-denominator Ajax functionality, push the mobile industry towards interoperability, and do all of this on an accelerated timeline." with review of the Mobile Ajax Ready idea outlined in the slidedeck as the strawman idea. Conclusions and Action Plans: Here are some of my personal takeaways: (1) The idea of an industry trust brand such as "Mobile Ajax Ready" might work, and the content guys would like to see it happen, but it would require considerable marketing along with significant resources and support from big companies. There have been other trust brand attempts that didn't take off. The BONDI project has been thinking about a trust brand project, but haven't done so yet due to concern about cost and effort. In the past, it has been difficult to get the content guys to work together on such an initiative. Despite these misgivings, we decided that we should continue to pitch the idea to others in the community to determine interest and collect feedback. (2) Another line of attack is to work on tools (of various sorts) that make cross-platform development more efficient. Some examples of tools that exist today: Acid tests from Web Standards Project W3C's Mobile OK test suite that verifies that Web pages are "scalable" (e.g., they have reasonable fallback behavior on HTML devices without JavaScript) W3C's Web Compatibility Test for Mobile Browsers, which combines in a single page a number of Web technologies that we believe are the foundation for a better Web experience, especially on mobile devices. (Kai Hendry of Aplix has been a big contributor here) DeviceAtlas, which helps mobile developers figure out what features work on which phones. OMA's test fests, where mobile platform providers demonstrate their support for key browsing standards One aspect from the Mobile Ajax Ready ideas that fits into the "tools" alternative is to find a way to leverage: The test suites found in the major Ajax toolkits, as potential supplements to the Web Standards Project tests. These test suites are already shared with some of the browser teams to ensure new versions of the browsers don't break leading Ajax toolkits. One theory expressed during the meeting is that some of the tools listed above are likely to have the by-product of persuading platform vendors to improve their browsers. (3) We decided to look into having an industry workshop (perhaps sponsored by W3C's mobile initiatives) to review existing tools for efficient mobile development and decide on whether there are any initiatives that need to be launched in the industry to fill any gaps. Dan Appelquist took the action to look into such as workshop. Backup notes: Auto-update: On the desktop, auto-update is a standard feature in modern browsers. On mobile, only a couple of browsers (iPhone and Android) have anything in this area, and we weren't sure about how good the update features are on those two platforms. Auto update is important because it helps to get rid of old, buggy, feature-poor browsers from the development and testing matrix. There have been problems in the past with upload logic that didn't account for the possibility of per-usage data plans or roaming charges. (Note: BONDI includes APIs for testing connection status, but it can't determine if there is a fixed rate data plan.) BONDI's reference implementations are using Windows Mobile because it is the only platform that all of the contributors are able to use and because its browser supports plugins. Reference implementations work both in the browser (via plugin) and implement widgets. Windows Mobile has good traction in some areas, particularly popular in Korea and Spain. HTC is running Windows Mobile with Gears and is able to do some interesting things with device APIs. Licensing of BONDI reference implementation is still TBD, but trying to get approval to have RF specs and Apache V2 reference implementations. BONDI will conform to W3C specs where available, but depending how geolocation shapes up, might use a different approach to security and privacy (where BONDI uses XACML approach). BONDI version 1 specs and reference implementations are due in January. Goal is to demonstrate at Mobile World Congress in February. BONDI has 5 companies working on different parts of the reference implementation. The implementers are driving the specs (i.e., working code first) BONDI probably will define a simpler language for expressing policy than the complicated grammar found in XACML, but preserve the underlying model from XACML. Will include ability for user to delegate trust to a 3rd party. BONDI has several security experts who have learned lessons from past, such as with Java and Symbian. For example, the feeling is that Java put too much emphasis on certificates. Doug expressed concern that there was experimentation within a standards body, with the counter of what is the alternative? W3C Widgets has developed strong industry momentum in the past year. Some platform providers have promised to support it. Others are positive without committing yet. There is a trend today to get around the lack of device APIs by implementing a shim layer in native code that hosts the browser engine. Provides most of the advantages of HTML+JavaScript for the presentation and interactivity features, and gets around lack of mobile device APIs with a reasonably low cost effort to do platform-specific hosting shims. I forgot to ask about whether anything ever happened at W3C or OMTP with the style guide that we pulled together for them. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20081105/02439565/attachment.html From jferrai at us.ibm.com Fri Nov 14 10:38:32 2008 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:38:32 -0800 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Fw: [widgets] OMTP BONDI 2nd public working draft released Message-ID: I haven't had a chance to look at the new drafts yet. Jon ----- Forwarded by Jon Ferraiolo/Menlo Park/IBM on 11/14/2008 10:37 AM ----- public-webapps-request at w3.org wrote on 11/14/2008 08:07:55 AM: > Dear all, > > I?d like to inform you that the 2nd working draft publications of > the OMTP BONDI are online and can be downloaded from today[1]. I?ve > listed the released documents below. You will see that we have > referenced the W3C Widget Requirements. The 1st public release > documents are also archived on the website. > > 1. OMTP BONDI Architecture & Security Public Working Draft v0.43 > Gives an overview of the architecture and security issues that need > to be addressed when delivering a secure framework that will allow > application developers access to sensitive APIs > 2. OMTP BONDI Security Framework for API Access > Addresses the specific requirements around and proposes a specific > model for implementing flexible security model around access to sensitive APIs > 3. OMTP BONDI Interfaces Public Working Draft v0.71 > Outlines 11 specific interfaces to be made available to web > developers via JavaScript interfaces and details the requirements > upon those APIs > 4. OMTP BONDI Architecture & Security Application Lifecycle > Events Use Cases Public Working Draft v0.15 > Augments the architecture and security requirements with an in-depth > analysis of the lifecycle management issues that need to be addressed > 5. OMTP BONDI Example Policies v1.0 (Zip file) > BONDI example polices to demonstrate the flexible nature of the > BONDI security model > > If you have any questions, please don?t hesitate to get in contact. > > [1] http://www.omtp.org/Bondi/ > > David Rogers > OMTP Director of External Relations -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20081114/a73289e1/attachment.html