From jonferraiolo at gmail.com Tue Feb 10 07:11:50 2009 From: jonferraiolo at gmail.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 15:11:50 +0000 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] =?windows-1252?q?=5BInvitation=5D_OpenAjax_Mobil?= =?windows-1252?q?e_Task_Force_=40_Thu_Feb_12_9am_=96_10am_=28mobil?= =?windows-1252?q?e=40openajax=2Eorg=29?= Message-ID: <0015174c0f201b42a4046291e85c@google.com> mobile at openajax.org, you are invited to Title: OpenAjax Mobile Task Force Time: Thu Feb 12 9am ? 10am (Timezone: Pacific Time) Where: Teleconference (see description) Calendar: mobile at openajax.org Owner/Creator: jonferraiolo at gmail.com Description: Date/time: Thursday Feb 12, 9amPT, noonET, 5pm London, 6pm Paris Summary: Discuss latest BONDI specs and work towards official OpenAjax feedback on those specs. * http://bondi.omtp.org/default.aspx * http://bondi.omtp.org/Documents/CR10/BONDI%201_0%20Candidate%20Release.zip * http://bondi.omtp.org/Lists/News/DispForm.aspx?ID=1&Source=http%3A%2F%2Fbondi.omtp.org%2Fdefault.aspx For call-in information, see the Mobile TF wiki page: * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_TF#Conference_Call_PIN_and_Phone_Numbers You can view this event at http://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=OGU4ajY1cG5sZHJuaGJlMXE2dWZsZWlsdmMgbW9iaWxlQG9wZW5hamF4Lm9yZw&tok=NTIjOTVqM3R1ajNwcmVoZnJhdWJxaXAxN2d0OWNAZ3JvdXAuY2FsZW5kYXIuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbTc2ZjA5ZTk5YTM3OTc4NzJiODU5NjlkN2Q2NTNmMWMwODQzZjE0MTk&ctz=America%2FLos_Angeles&hl=en You are receiving this courtesy email at the account mobile at openajax.org because you are an attendee of this event. To stop receiving future notifications for this event, decline this event. Alternatively you can sign up for a Google account at http://www.google.com/calendar/ and control your notification settings for your entire calendar. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090210/77edbf72/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/calendar Size: 1553 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090210/77edbf72/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: invite.ics Type: application/ics Size: 1587 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090210/77edbf72/attachment-0001.bin From mohammed.dadas at orange-ftgroup.com Tue Feb 10 17:05:12 2009 From: mohammed.dadas at orange-ftgroup.com (mohammed.dadas at orange-ftgroup.com) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 02:05:12 +0100 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] =?iso-8859-1?q?Accept=E9e=A0=3A__=5BInvitation?= =?iso-8859-1?q?=5D_OpenAjax_Mobile_Task_Force_=40_Thu_Feb_12_9am_-?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_10am_=28mobile=40openajax=2Eorg=29?= Message-ID: ********************************* This message and any attachments (the "message") are confidential and intended solely for the addressees. Any unauthorised use or dissemination is prohibited. Messages are susceptible to alteration. France Telecom Group shall not be liable for the message if altered, changed or falsified. If you are not the intended addressee of this message, please cancel it immediately and inform the sender. ******************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090211/f2db851f/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/calendar Size: 2029 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090211/f2db851f/attachment.bin From jferrai at us.ibm.com Tue Feb 10 10:43:49 2009 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2009 10:43:49 -0800 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] BONDI widget gallery Message-ID: The BONDI web site shows 3 sample widgets, all of which use Ajax to render their content. Here is the gallery URL: http://bondi.omtp.org/widget-gallery/default.aspx The 3 sample widgets are all defined using the W3C Widgets standard, and all use the "Web Runtime" (i.e., Ajax) to render their results. Each widget is a single file with a .wgt extension. These files are actually just ZIP files, so you can open them with any ZIP utility to extract what's inside. All 3 sample widgets are dependent on having a user agent that supports the BONDI APIs. However, for the "gig guide" example, you can simply double-click on index.html and (so long as you type in a location) you'll see most of the widget's presentation in your browser because the BONDI APIs are only used for selected features. The gig guide example uses lots of Ajax techniques under the hood, such as XMLHttpRequest and the inclusion of a Google maps widget. My initial reaction: double thumbs up. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090210/fcebf36c/attachment.html From jferrai at us.ibm.com Wed Feb 11 13:41:07 2009 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2009 13:41:07 -0800 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Reminder: Mobile TF phone call tomorrow Message-ID: Date/time: Thursday Feb 12, 9amPT, noonET, 5pm London, 6pm Paris Summary: Discuss latest BONDI specs and work towards official OpenAjax feedback on those specs. * http://bondi.omtp.org/default.aspx, * http://bondi.omtp.org/Documents/CR10/BONDI%201_0%20Candidate%20Release.zip: * http://bondi.omtp.org/Lists/News/DispForm.aspx?ID=1&Source=http%3A%2F%2Fbondi.omtp.org%2Fdefault.aspx For call-in information, see the Mobile TF wiki page: * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_TF#Conference_Call_PIN_and_Phone_Numbers Jon Google calendar event at http://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=OGU4ajY1cG5sZHJuaGJlMXE2dWZsZWlsdmMgbW9iaWxlQG9wZW5hamF4Lm9yZw&tok=NTIjOTVqM3R1ajNwcmVoZnJhdWJxaXAxN2d0OWNAZ3JvdXAuY2FsZW5kYXIuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbTc2ZjA5ZTk5YTM3OTc4NzJiODU5NjlkN2Q2NTNmMWMwODQzZjE0MTk&ctz=America%2FLos_Angeles&hl=en . -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090211/685b9086/attachment.html From jferrai at us.ibm.com Thu Feb 12 14:56:51 2009 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2009 14:56:51 -0800 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Minutes 2009-02-12 Message-ID: Mobile Minutes 2009-02-12 URL: http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_Minutes_2009-02-12 Attendees Jon Ferraiolo, IBM Mohammed Dadas, Orange France Telecom Dan Appelquist, Vodafone Adam Peller, IBM Guillermo Caudevilla, Vodafone Andrew Sledd, Ikivo Paddy Byers, Aplix David Pollington, Vodafone Original Agenda Summary: Discuss latest BONDI specs and work towards official OpenAjax feedback on those specs. http://bondi.omtp.org/default.aspx http://bondi.omtp.org/Documents/CR10/BONDI%201_0%20Candidate%20Release.zip. http://bondi.omtp.org/Lists/News/DispForm.aspx?ID=1&Source=http%3A%2F%2Fbondi.omtp.org%2Fdefault.aspx Minutes Jon: I propose that we do an overview and introduction today, then spend two weeks on email and wiki, and then assemble in two weeks to consolidate feedback into a report Andy: Let's ask what the BONDI people want out of OpenAjax. What should we be looking for? API feedback? Formatting feedback? Dan: We are looking for feedback on implementation of the APIs. Are the APIs friendly enough to Web developers? Not just the Mobile TF opinion, but rest of alliance. Jon: Let's use the wiki to collect feedback. Wiki page with introduction to BONDI and links to the BONDI documents. Then send email to OpenAjax participants asking for feedback. We used such a wiki-based approach for the browser wishlist. Worked well, despite the free-for-all approach. In two weeks, consolidate the feedback. Andrew: That approach has worked well in the past. Open to the whole alliance. Jon: I'll send email to the public (non participant) list also. They can't edit the wiki and maybe no one will respond, but doesn't hurt to ask. Their feedback would have to come via email. Jon: I would propose 3 (no wait, 4, no wait, 5, no wait, 6) wiki pages: 1. Intro to BONDI, say we are looking for feedback, here is how to provide feedback 2. JavaScript API approach - good or bad 3. Security approach - good or bad 4. Spec errors 5. (this issue came later in the phone call) How OpenAjax can help evangelize BONDI 6. (this issue came later in the phone call) Features for BONDI v2 Jon: Security looks like what we asked for. In fact, that's true across nearly everything I see Dan: We aim to please Paddy: We are looking for detailed review of the APIs. Unfortunately, not much public review yet. On security stuff, two angles: (1) are there any security holes, (2) you could argue we have just moved the problem. Policy moved to someone else. Practicality is an issue. Jon: Yes, I noticed that. Dan: Spec errors would be very useful. Jon: What's the finalization timeframe for BONDI 1.0? Paddy: Not defined. Instead, we have defined the gate. Need a certain minimum time for consultation with reviewers Need to create reference implementation Need to create test suite Need to verify RI passes TS Test suite schedule isn't defined yet Jon: Optimistic guesstimate? Paddy: 8 weeks is optimistic Jon: My instant review comment is that JS APIs are fine. The security features are generally what we requested. The OpenAjax style guide recommended against the loading of particular features, but we also had caveats at the top that we have a particular point of view and that it very well may make sense due to other constraints or requirements to choose different approaches. In the case of the loader, I think you made the right choice and tradeoffs. Big thing is getting the rest of the industry to adopt. Paddy: What can OpenAjax do? Dan: Evangelism certainly. Maybe an alternate implementation. Jon: Let's have a 5th wiki page for evangelism Dan: Starting to hear lots of comments about HTML5 immersive widgets. Kai Hendry wrote a good post on how BONDI is not incompatible with HTML5. Needless controversy. One area where OpenAjax can take a stand. Jon: Let me think about what we can do about that. Jon: One thing to consider is the OpenAjax browser wishlist update that we will be doing this spring. Definitely want to put BONDI on the list. Would be great if it got lots of votes, but without good education, it might not. Need to think about that. Guillermo: Late March is our next F2F. One area to discuss is new APIs for a second release. Would be great to have OpenAjax input on that. Jon: Another wiki page. My feeling is that there is a lot there with 1.0. Focus on getting it adopted. Guillermo: Also, how to get more adoption? Put into WebKit? Mozilla? Multiple operating systems? Different devices? That will be on the agenda. Great to have feedback. Jon: What's happening with Mozilla? Paddy: Some discussions of an alternative reference implementation. But no embedding API like what you have in WebKit. Jon: But Mozilla has an extension manager. Paddy: Yes. That would allow BONDI APIs to be added to Mozilla. But to use Gecko to render widgets, harder. Jon: XULRunner? Paddy: I don't know the details. But they have been talking about adding an embedding API, but not done yet. Jon: Other requests? Paddy: Wiki pages are a good idea Jon: Who on the call doesn't understand BONDI? Andy: Somewhat Adam: Not familiar with it (Jon gives summary, not minuted. Something similar will appear on the wiki soon.) Jon: Most of BONDI is outside of UI, but there is a feature for dealing with menus. That's for the two buttons just above the keypad on old-style phones, right? What happens with a touch device like the iPhone? Paddy: I'm not close to that API, but it is supposed to provide an abstract API which a device can deliver however it wants to. On Windows Mobile, adds a menu button. Modelled after Nokia's similar APIs. Jon: Networking APIs - For XMLHttpRequest, you have to go through BONDI? Paddy: No. The intention is that when JS attempts to go through XHR, the implementation runs the request through BONDI security first. Jon: Same thing for all of the HTTP GETs, such as SCRIPT SRC=? Paddy: Yes Jon: On the filesystem APIs, what about "virtual roots"? Paddy: There will be designated areas on the local file system that you can write to. Not the whole disk. Each area has a well-known rootname. Often, each widget has its own private storage with a well-known name. Some shared areas such as gallery, also with a well-known name. Modelled after similar Java APIs. Jon: OK, thanks. Next, digsigs. I understand what's going on with widgets, but I have questions about digsigs on web pages. What's going on here? Paddy: For a normal web site, key attribute is the URI of the web site. But if HTTPS, you also have attributes about the certificate. Not signing the content, but info about the SSL connection. Allows decisions based on attributes of SSL certificate Jon: OK, thanks. Jon: Any relationship to Netscape signatures? Paddy: No, we looked at that. Mozilla supports Zip, actually Jar, and the jar: protocol, and allows browsers to point to assets within the jar. In theory, BONDI could use such a feature in the future. Not widely supported yet. But for now, HTTPS addresses some key requirements. If I trust my bank over HTTPS, I probably can trust it to access certain device APIs. Jon: Policy grammar. Looks like it modeled after XACML, but not transcodable into it. That's what the spec says. Paddy: Yes. We tried to do a subset of simplified XACML that could be transcoded into XACML, but it became too contrived. Decided to give up to make it cleaner and simpler. Eg. we needed to allow attributes to be 'undefined' in JS. Also, the combining rules in XACML not quite right. However, if XACML adds a small number of small extensions, then you could transcode. Jon: I buy it. My intuition is that you made the right tradeoff. Paddy: Tried to follow Rotan's guidelines posted at OpenAjax about how to design a good XML grammar. Natural as how an author would say it. Jon: Next question: not sure I fully understand the PRESENTATION element with options background and hidden. Dan: To some extent, that's up the implementation. Hidden means it is performing a background task. Jon: OK. One worry is whether this feature is sufficiently defined. I'll check. Jon: Same time in 2 weeks? (yes) -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090212/e2b47b33/attachment.html From jferrai at us.ibm.com Fri Feb 13 13:59:08 2009 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2009 13:59:08 -0800 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] ASAP: Wiki pages created for BONDI feedback - please review Message-ID: I created the wiki pages we talked about at yesterday's phone call. Could people please review these wiki pages and send suggestions back as quickly as possible? I will send various announcements to OpenAjax members on Monday asking them to review BONDI and enter their feedback on the wiki pages. The wiki pages: http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI - Main wiki page http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Overview - Introduction to BONDI and overview of its technologies http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Security - Feedback page relative to the general approaches that OMTP is using for its APIs. Are the APIs understandable, familiar in approach, and convenient to JavaScript developers? http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Security - Feedback page relative to the security features in BONDI. Is the design robust? Are there any security holes? Are the security features easy enough to use? http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Spec_Errors - Enter any detailed spec errors on this wiki http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Evangelism - Possible ways that OpenAjax Alliance might be able to help evangelize BONDI http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_V2_Wishlist - OMTP will start discussion about future versions of BONDI in March 2009. This wiki page collects any feature requests from OpenAjax members. Some of my effort was a bit hurried. I will likely do some minor cleanup between now and Monday. One area in particular where I could use help is relative to the loader features in BONDI. I took a guess as to how I thought the loader probably worked, but I probably got it wrong. Please review and fix. * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Overview#The_Loader Thanks. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090213/94ad0a07/attachment.html From jferrai at us.ibm.com Wed Feb 25 14:56:06 2009 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Wed, 25 Feb 2009 14:56:06 -0800 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Phone call tomorrow on BONDI Message-ID: Hi everyone, We will have a Mobile TF phone call tomorrow. I have had some small amount of success in getting feedback on the BONDI APIs from the Ajax community, and in the process, I ran into some questions that I couldn't answer. I'll prepare the feedback I have so far and the list of questions before the phone call tomorrow. I am pretty sure that after one more week there will be stronger community feedback. I think I have figured out where to get some quick, high-quality, and candid community feedback, but first let's have our meeting tomorrow. Jon Next meeting Date: Thursday, February 26, 2009 Time: 9amPT, noonET, 5pm London, 6pm Paris Agenda Summary: Discuss latest BONDI specs and work towards official OpenAjax feedback on those specs. BONDI information http://bondi.omtp.org/default.aspx http://bondi.omtp.org/Documents/CR10/BONDI%201_0%20Candidate%20Release.zip. http://bondi.omtp.org/Lists/News/DispForm.aspx?ID=1&Source=http%3A%2F%2Fbondi.omtp.org%2Fdefault.aspx OpenAjax wiki pages relevant to BONDI http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Overview http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_APIs http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Security http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Spec_Errors http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Evangelism http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_V2_Wishlist [edit]Conference Call PIN and Phone Numbers Passcode: 8524962301 Conference Access: Toll free: 1-888-619-1583 Toll: 1-719-457-1414 International toll free - Argentina: 0800 666 3149 International toll free - Australia: 1 800 105 680 International toll free - Austria: 0 800 291 941 International toll free - Belgium: 0 800 75 240 International toll free - Chile: 123 0020 9725 International toll free - China, Northern Region: 10 800 714 1201 International toll free - China, Southern Region: 10 800 140 1180 International toll free - Colombia: 01 800 518 0789 International toll free - Costa Rica: 0800 015 0616 International toll free - Czech Republic: 800 700 294 International toll free - Denmark: 80 886 215 International toll free - Dominican Republic: 1 888 751 4488 International toll free - Ecuador: 1 800 020 321 International toll free - France: 0 800 90 0161 International toll free - Germany: 0 800 181 9019 International toll free - Greece: 00 800 161 2205 5955 International toll free - Hong Kong: 800 901 110 International toll free - Hungary: 06 800 162 50 International toll free - India: 000 800 1006 980 International toll free - Indonesia: 001 803 017 5955 International toll free - Ireland: 1 800 760 547 International toll free - Israel: 1 809 246 041 International toll free - Italy: 800 873 739 International toll free - Japan: 00531 16 0844 International toll free - Lithuania: 8 800 3 05 25 International toll free - Luxembourg: 800 2 7665 International toll free - Malaysia: 1 800 813 714 International toll free - Mexico: 001 800 514 5955 International toll free - Monaco: 800 93 416 International toll free - Netherlands: 0 800 023 5303 International toll free - New Zealand: 0 800 451 015 International toll free - Norway: 800 196 65 International toll free - Panama: 00 800 226 5955 International toll free - Poland: 00 800 111 49 58 International toll free - Portugal: 800 819 728 International toll free - Russia: 810 800 2704 1012 International toll free - Singapore: 800 101 2002 International toll free - Slovenia: 0 800 80203 International toll free - South Africa: 0 800 980 988 International toll free - South Korea: 003 0813 1963 International toll free - Spain: 900 947 604 International toll free - Sweden: 02 079 7556 International toll free - Switzerland: 0 800 564 397 International toll free - Thailand: 001 800 156 205 5955 International toll free - Trinidad-Tobago: 1 800 205 5955 International toll free - UK: 0 808 101 1146 International toll free - Uruguay: 0004 019 0188 International toll free - Venezuela: 0 800 100 8300 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090225/5abbde55/attachment.html From jferrai at us.ibm.com Thu Feb 26 08:37:13 2009 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 08:37:13 -0800 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Focus for today's phone call: API feedback wiki page Message-ID: Here is the wiki page which has some questions and feedbacks to talk about at today's phone call: * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_APIs Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090226/3ebb834c/attachment.html From paddy.byers at gmail.com Thu Feb 26 08:52:21 2009 From: paddy.byers at gmail.com (Paddy Byers) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:52:21 +0000 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Focus for today's phone call: API feedback wiki page In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <59db1b5a0902260852i4808a23u7ab62a296d0e22b9@mail.gmail.com> Hi, Sorry, but I won't be able to make the call today. I will try to respond to any questions that come up on the list. Paddy On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Jon Ferraiolo wrote: > Here is the wiki page which has some questions and feedbacks to talk about > at today's phone call: > > * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_APIs > > Jon > > > _______________________________________________ > mobile mailing list > mobile at openajax.org > http://openajax.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090226/0abcced2/attachment.html From chaals at opera.com Thu Feb 26 09:13:09 2009 From: chaals at opera.com (Charles McCathieNevile) Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:13:09 +0100 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Focus for today's phone call: API feedback wiki page In-Reply-To: <59db1b5a0902260852i4808a23u7ab62a296d0e22b9@mail.gmail.com> References: <59db1b5a0902260852i4808a23u7ab62a296d0e22b9@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Regrets. I will try to get Max Froumentin, who has been studying this for us, to comment on the Wiki - he is far better placed than I to do so but was unable to join the call tonight. cheers Chaals On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 17:52:21 +0100, Paddy Byers wrote: > Hi, > > Sorry, but I won't be able to make the call today. I will try to respond > to > any questions that come up on the list. > > Paddy > > On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:37 PM, Jon Ferraiolo > wrote: > >> Here is the wiki page which has some questions and feedbacks to talk >> about >> at today's phone call: >> >> * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_APIs >> >> Jon >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> mobile mailing list >> mobile at openajax.org >> http://openajax.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile >> >> -- Charles McCathieNevile Opera Software, Standards Group je parle fran?ais -- hablo espa?ol -- jeg l?rer norsk http://my.opera.com/chaals Try Opera: http://www.opera.com From jferrai at us.ibm.com Wed Mar 4 13:53:53 2009 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Wed, 4 Mar 2009 13:53:53 -0800 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Minutes from 2009-02-26 (last Thursday) Message-ID: Sorry I was so slow in posting the minutes from last Thursday. Mobile Minutes 2009-02-26 URL: http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_Minutes_2009-02-26 Attendees: * Jon Ferraiolo, IBM. * Andrew Sledd, Ikivo * Robin Berjon, Ikivo * Andy Braun, Sony Ericsson * Nick Allott, OMTP (invited guest) Original Agenda * Agenda o Summary: Discuss latest BONDI specs and work towards official OpenAjax feedback on those specs. o BONDI information + http://bondi.omtp.org/default.aspx + http://bondi.omtp.org/Documents/CR10/BONDI%201_0%20Candidate%20Release.zip + http://bondi.omtp.org/Lists/News/DispForm.aspx?ID=1&Source=http%3A%2F%2Fbondi.omtp.org%2Fdefault.aspx o OpenAjax wiki pages relevant to BONDI + http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI. + http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Overview + http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_APIs + http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Security + http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Spec_Errors + http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Evangelism + http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_V2_Wishlist Minutes Jon: I broadcast emails asking for feedback on BONDI, but no responses. My guess is that providing feedback on BONDI is a major investment in time for Ajax folks and they are all too busy with other things. I have cornered a couple of people and have some feedback, but I need to corner some others. [edit] BONDI Overview * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Overview Jon: I need to reorganize things. The overview should go on the TOC page and the historical information needs to be moved elsewhere. (someone points out that the table is messed up) (subsequently, we walked through initial feedback posted at http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_APIs) window.bondi object Jon: Does something have to be loaded for the 'bondi' global object to be there, or will it be assumed to be there always? Nick: Assumed to be there. But different behavior for widgets and browser pages. For widgets, it is just there. For browser pages, not entirely sure. I'll have to check. You might have to include something to make sure it is there. (Note: Paddy Byers subsequently submitted text for the overview wiki page explaining that the bondi global object will be evangelized to be built into browsers natively, but if it's not native, it would be necessary to include platform-specific loader logic to bring in the bondi global object.) Jon: Maybe what you need is some useful open source that is outside of the formal BONDI specs that people can use to load the bondi global object across various different platforms. Adam: Is synchronous loading implicit? Nick: Yes Jon: That make not work well in all cases. Suppose something needs to come down from the Web. Nick: Yes, have to block until it is there. Need to add this to the spec Jon/Nick: (Agreement that BONDI is missing an overview white paper that explains how everything is held together) Jon: Without the white paper, it is difficult for people to get up the learning curve so they can provide good feedback Nick: I will try to have a white paper ready by the end of next week Jon: On the OpenWeb mailing list, there has been some talk about BONDI at a conceptual level, as a good idea, but lots of skepticism expressed about how OMTP is run by the operators and people saying they are untrustworthy due to history of walled gardens Nick: We will create a BONDI principles document that explains some of our guiding principles, such as giving the user full control over security Jon: Regarding the bondi global object, the detailed docs don't show what you have said Nick: Yes, they are out of date and need to be updated bondi.load() Note: since the meeting, Paddy sent text for the wiki overview page that explains that bondi.load() has been renamed to bondi.requestFeature(). Jon: Do you have to call load()? Nick: On a web page, always. For widgets, no, because the elements in the W3C Widgets XML file causes the given API to be made available by the widget engine. Jon: So, no need for an unload(), given this approach Nick: Yes, let's keep things simple for now Jon: Does bondi.load() return an object? Nick: Yes, an object that holds the interfaces callbacks, Jon: What if a callback invokes an exception? Nick: Have to double check, but I think we have best practices that says don't throw exceptions Jon: OpenAjax has some best practices for callbacks at http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/OpenAjax_Hub_1.1_Specification_Publish_Subscribe_Best_Practices Robin: Look at what XMLHttpRequest does Jon: What's the 'this' object when the callback runs? Nick: I can't guarantee we have consistency Jon: Probably you want to add a 'scope' parameter that is optional to allow the developer to say what the 'this' object should be. For example, someBONDIapi(..., successCB, failureCB [,scopeObject]); Nick: OK Jon: How is a filesystem object (or any other module) created in a widget context in response to a element? Does the element specify the name of the JavaScript global that will hold the APIs? Nick: I'll have to check that one Jon: In general, for bondi.load(), you want to pass objects around and not JavaScript global names. Nick: Yes filesystem APIs, Nick: We are using the fs apis that Opera has submitted to the W3C. A few wrapper APIs are different. Otherwise, the same as W3C. Adam: Synchronous APIs with JavaScript? In Java, you would do this in a thread. Nick: That was an ongoing thread at the W3C Nick: DCCI has some similar stuff. So does geolocation. Best to fix this at the W3C Jon: Absolute paths? Seems to me that paths should be relative to a virtual root Adam: Encoding parameter? Jon: What if first line is UTF-8 and second line is UTF-16? Jon: Question about mounting events. Why are they needed? Nick: Removable media. Let me check on that. I thought some smartcard vendors have said we need something like that deviceStatus Jon: Weird callback API. Double nesting. parameter/object/object. Looks like it might be derivate of Java style APIs, where there is a handler function inside of an event listener object. Inconsistent with other APIs. Maybe you should do triage across all of BONDI's callbacks bondi.load (again) Jon: The documentation for AddressBook shows the following example: bondi.load('pim.contact', { id: 'contact', success, failure }); What's going on here? That's incorrect JavaScript. Do you mean: (a) bondi.load('pim.contact', { id: 'contact', success: successCB, failure: failureCB }); or) (b) bondi.load('pim.contact', { id: 'contact'}, successCB, failureCB ); I guess it's (b) Nick: Yes, probably. Next steps Jon: Phone call after white paper?: Nick: I can get something on Modnay and then you say when to get together. Need feedback at the latest one week before March 23 face-to-face Jon: I'll clean up wiki pages on OpenAjax site Nick: I'll get full spec for bondi.load and on property change. Filesystem is a general discussion area. Nick: Need feedback on security. Jon: Tried to have a meeting before today, but couldn't pull it off. I'll talk with IBM security people soon and then figure out how best to bring that feedback into this group. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090304/2ec6aab6/attachment.html From jferrai at us.ibm.com Thu Mar 12 07:29:55 2009 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 07:29:55 -0700 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Please RSVP: No phone call today - next BONDI phone call on March 19? Message-ID: I propose that we have our next BONDI phone call the week of March 16-20 at the usual timeslot: (1) Thursday March 19, 9amPT, noonET, 5pm London, 6pm Paris Here are backup time slots: (2) Tuesday March 17, 9amPT, noonET, 5pm London, 6pm Paris (3) Wednesday March 18, 9amPT, noonET, 5pm London, 6pm Paris Please RSVP about which of the above time slots work for you. Thanks. Jon PS. I have completed interviews with IBM security experts about BONDI security and the IBM/Lotus mobile team. Lots of great feedback from these interviews, but I haven't had time to post my notes yet on the wiki. I'll send email once my notes are posted. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090312/2a67de6d/attachment.html From paddy.byers at gmail.com Thu Mar 12 07:38:33 2009 From: paddy.byers at gmail.com (Paddy Byers) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 14:38:33 +0000 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Please RSVP: No phone call today - next BONDI phone call on March 19? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <59db1b5a0903120738ne5323f1m6944ededdd1b9cbe@mail.gmail.com> Hi, (1) and (3) are OK for me. Thanks - Paddy On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 2:29 PM, Jon Ferraiolo wrote: > I propose that we have our next BONDI phone call the week of March 16-20 at > the usual timeslot: > > (1) Thursday March 19, 9amPT, noonET, 5pm London, 6pm Paris > > Here are backup time slots: > > (2) Tuesday March 17, 9amPT, noonET, 5pm London, 6pm Paris > (3) Wednesday March 18, 9amPT, noonET, 5pm London, 6pm Paris > > Please RSVP about which of the above time slots work for you. > > Thanks. > Jon > > PS. I have completed interviews with IBM security experts about BONDI > security and the IBM/Lotus mobile team. Lots of great feedback from these > interviews, but I haven't had time to post my notes yet on the wiki. I'll > send email once my notes are posted. > > _______________________________________________ > mobile mailing list > mobile at openajax.org > http://openajax.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090312/5f1e6629/attachment.html From mohammed.dadas at orange-ftgroup.com Thu Mar 12 09:27:15 2009 From: mohammed.dadas at orange-ftgroup.com (mohammed.dadas at orange-ftgroup.com) Date: Thu, 12 Mar 2009 17:27:15 +0100 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Please RSVP: No phone call today - next BONDIphone call on March 19? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: All of them are ok for me. together we can do more Mohammed Dadas Access to Content Standardization Manager tel. +33 5 61 30 84 97 mob. +33 6 80 59 98 87 mohammed.dadas at orange-ftgroup.com _____ De : mobile-bounces at openajax.org [mailto:mobile-bounces at openajax.org] De la part de Jon Ferraiolo Envoy? : jeudi 12 mars 2009 15:30 ? : mobile at openajax.org Objet : [OpenAjaxMobile] Please RSVP: No phone call today - next BONDIphone call on March 19? I propose that we have our next BONDI phone call the week of March 16-20 at the usual timeslot: (1) Thursday March 19, 9amPT, noonET, 5pm London, 6pm Paris Here are backup time slots: (2) Tuesday March 17, 9amPT, noonET, 5pm London, 6pm Paris (3) Wednesday March 18, 9amPT, noonET, 5pm London, 6pm Paris Please RSVP about which of the above time slots work for you. Thanks. Jon PS. I have completed interviews with IBM security experts about BONDI security and the IBM/Lotus mobile team. Lots of great feedback from these interviews, but I haven't had time to post my notes yet on the wiki. I'll send email once my notes are posted. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090312/6461689f/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 1264 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090312/6461689f/attachment-0002.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: image/gif Size: 1081 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090312/6461689f/attachment-0003.gif -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 7174 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090312/6461689f/attachment-0001.bin From Andrew.Sledd at ikivo.com Mon Mar 16 01:22:10 2009 From: Andrew.Sledd at ikivo.com (Andrew Sledd) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 09:22:10 +0100 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Please RSVP: No phone call today - next BONDIphone call on March 19? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <234EB4699C751A4A95DF4FD8D041BBFD0139952A@SESTHSRV10.zoomon.local> Thursday works for me. Due to the States move to DST, the time is either one hour later for you all or one hour earlier for those of us from Europe. What works best for you Jon? Andy ________________________________ From: mobile-bounces at openajax.org [mailto:mobile-bounces at openajax.org] On Behalf Of Jon Ferraiolo Sent: den 12 mars 2009 15:30 To: mobile at openajax.org Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Please RSVP: No phone call today - next BONDIphone call on March 19? I propose that we have our next BONDI phone call the week of March 16-20 at the usual timeslot: (1) Thursday March 19, 9amPT, noonET, 5pm London, 6pm Paris Here are backup time slots: (2) Tuesday March 17, 9amPT, noonET, 5pm London, 6pm Paris (3) Wednesday March 18, 9amPT, noonET, 5pm London, 6pm Paris Please RSVP about which of the above time slots work for you. Thanks. Jon PS. I have completed interviews with IBM security experts about BONDI security and the IBM/Lotus mobile team. Lots of great feedback from these interviews, but I haven't had time to post my notes yet on the wiki. I'll send email once my notes are posted. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090316/0ae233d8/attachment.html From jonferraiolo at gmail.com Mon Mar 16 07:12:45 2009 From: jonferraiolo at gmail.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:12:45 +0000 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] =?windows-1252?q?=5BInvitation=5D_OpenAjax_Mobil?= =?windows-1252?q?e_Task_Force_=40_Thu_Mar_19_9am_=96_10am_=28mobil?= =?windows-1252?q?e=40openajax=2Eorg=29?= Message-ID: <0015174c368e6a9c5004653d0b07@google.com> mobile at openajax.org, you are invited to Title: OpenAjax Mobile Task Force Time: Thu Mar 19 9am ? 10am (Timezone: Pacific Time) Where: Teleconference (see description) Calendar: mobile at openajax.org Owner/Creator: jonferraiolo at gmail.com Description: Date/time: Thursday Feb 12, 9amPT, noonET, 4pm London, 5pm Paris (NOTE: USA changed to daylight savings before rest of world) Summary: Discuss latest BONDI specs and work towards official OpenAjax feedback on those specs. * http://bondi.omtp.org/default.aspx * http://bondi.omtp.org/Documents/CR10/BONDI%201_0%20Candidate%20Release.zip * http://bondi.omtp.org/Lists/News/DispForm.aspx?ID=1&Source=http%3A%2F%2Fbondi.omtp.org%2Fdefault.aspx Here are OpenAjax feedback pages: * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_APIs * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Security * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Enterprise * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Evangelism * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_V2_Wishlist * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_History For call-in information, see the Mobile TF wiki page: * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_TF#Conference_Call_PIN_and_Phone_Numbers You can view this event at http://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=MGE5OTg1ZGpjOGE5dWN1cDRxNGVsN210aTggbW9iaWxlQG9wZW5hamF4Lm9yZw&tok=NTIjOTVqM3R1ajNwcmVoZnJhdWJxaXAxN2d0OWNAZ3JvdXAuY2FsZW5kYXIuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbTBhZmYzOTg1ZWFmOTNlNjk1NGJlYWZhZDBmNzZjNTRiZDEyNzQ1Mjk&ctz=America%2FLos_Angeles&hl=en You are receiving this courtesy email at the account mobile at openajax.org because you are an attendee of this event. To stop receiving future notifications for this event, decline this event. Alternatively you can sign up for a Google account at http://www.google.com/calendar/ and control your notification settings for your entire calendar. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090316/6c79639a/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/calendar Size: 2066 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090316/6c79639a/attachment.bin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: invite.ics Type: application/ics Size: 2107 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090316/6c79639a/attachment-0001.bin From jonferraiolo at gmail.com Mon Mar 16 07:13:48 2009 From: jonferraiolo at gmail.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 14:13:48 +0000 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] =?windows-1252?q?=5BUpdated_Invitation=5D_OpenAj?= =?windows-1252?q?ax_Mobile_Task_Force_=40_Thu_Mar_19_9am_=96_10am_?= =?windows-1252?q?=28mobile=40openajax=2Eorg=29?= Message-ID: <0016e6db66fe2af1db04653d0f6c@google.com> Details for the following event have changed: Title: OpenAjax Mobile Task Force Time: Thu Mar 19 9am ? 10am (Timezone: Pacific Time) Where: Teleconference (see description) Calendar: mobile at openajax.org Owner/Creator: jonferraiolo at gmail.com Description: Date/time: Thursday March 19, 9amPT, noonET, 4pm London, 5pm Paris (NOTE: USA changed to daylight savings before rest of world) Summary: Discuss latest BONDI specs and work towards official OpenAjax feedback on those specs. * http://bondi.omtp.org/default.aspx * http://bondi.omtp.org/Documents/CR10/BONDI%201_0%20Candidate%20Release.zip * http://bondi.omtp.org/Lists/News/DispForm.aspx?ID=1&Source=http%3A%2F%2Fbondi.omtp.org%2Fdefault.aspx Here are OpenAjax feedback pages: * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_APIs * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Security * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Enterprise * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Evangelism * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_V2_Wishlist * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_History For call-in information, see the Mobile TF wiki page: * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_TF#Conference_Call_PIN_and_Phone_Numbers You can view this event at http://www.google.com/calendar/event?action=VIEW&eid=MGE5OTg1ZGpjOGE5dWN1cDRxNGVsN210aTggbW9iaWxlQG9wZW5hamF4Lm9yZw&tok=NTIjOTVqM3R1ajNwcmVoZnJhdWJxaXAxN2d0OWNAZ3JvdXAuY2FsZW5kYXIuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbTBhZmYzOTg1ZWFmOTNlNjk1NGJlYWZhZDBmNzZjNTRiZDEyNzQ1Mjk&ctz=America%2FLos_Angeles&hl=en You are receiving this courtesy email at the account mobile at openajax.org because you are an attendee of this event. To stop receiving future notifications for this event, decline this event. Alternatively you can sign up for a Google account at http://www.google.com/calendar/ and control your notification settings for your entire calendar. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090316/5b22d0b7/attachment-0001.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/calendar Size: 2068 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090316/5b22d0b7/attachment-0002.bin -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: invite.ics Type: application/ics Size: 2109 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090316/5b22d0b7/attachment-0003.bin From jferrai at us.ibm.com Mon Mar 16 07:15:27 2009 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:15:27 -0700 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Security feedback on BONDI Message-ID: I interviewed Larry Koved and Suresh Chari of IBM about BONDI's security features. I posted my notes at: * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Security Larry and Suresh, if you see inaccuracies or omissions, please fix that wiki page. If anyone else has feedback on BONDI security, please add to that wiki page. Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090316/56eeb5b2/attachment.html From jferrai at us.ibm.com Mon Mar 16 07:16:23 2009 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:16:23 -0700 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Enterprise feedback on BONDI Message-ID: I interviewed a few people from IBM's Lotus team who are focusing on mobile devices. I posted my notes at: * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Enterprise Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090316/4e930a2f/attachment.html From jferrai at us.ibm.com Mon Mar 16 07:07:07 2009 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 07:07:07 -0700 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Let's have our next phone call on Thursday Message-ID: Let's have our next Mobile TF phone call on Thursday this week at 9am US-PT. Due to the US having switched to daylight savings time early, that means: * California: 9am * New York: noon * London: 4pm * Paris: 5pm Jon -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090316/a251775b/attachment.html From mohammed.dadas at orange-ftgroup.com Mon Mar 16 09:30:27 2009 From: mohammed.dadas at orange-ftgroup.com (mohammed.dadas at orange-ftgroup.com) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 17:30:27 +0100 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] =?iso-8859-1?q?Accept=E9e=A0=3A__=5BUpdated_Invi?= =?iso-8859-1?q?tation=5D_OpenAjax_Mobile_Task_Force_=40_Thu_Mar_19?= =?iso-8859-1?q?_9am_-_10am_=28mobile=40openajax=2Eorg=29?= Message-ID: ********************************* This message and any attachments (the "message") are confidential and intended solely for the addressees. Any unauthorised use or dissemination is prohibited. Messages are susceptible to alteration. France Telecom Group shall not be liable for the message if altered, changed or falsified. If you are not the intended addressee of this message, please cancel it immediately and inform the sender. ******************************** -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090316/c0f12d9b/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/calendar Size: 2037 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090316/c0f12d9b/attachment.bin From Andrew.Sledd at ikivo.com Mon Mar 16 13:38:14 2009 From: Andrew.Sledd at ikivo.com (Andrew Sledd) Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:38:14 +0100 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Accepted: [Updated Invitation] OpenAjax Mobile Task Force @ Thu Mar 19 9am - 10am (mobile@openajax.org) Message-ID: <234EB4699C751A4A95DF4FD8D041BBFD01399647@SESTHSRV10.zoomon.local> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090316/059b52cc/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: text/calendar Size: 1526 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090316/059b52cc/attachment.bin From jferrai at us.ibm.com Wed Mar 18 15:33:13 2009 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 15:33:13 -0700 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Tomorrow's agenda: BONDI feedback Message-ID: Mobile TF phone call tomorrow. I thought we could focus the discussion tomorrow on: * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Security * http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Enterprise Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009 Time: 9amPT, noonET, 4pm London, 5pm Paris (NOTE: USA changed to daylight savings before rest of world) Agenda Summary: Discuss latest BONDI specs and work towards official OpenAjax feedback on those specs. BONDI information http://bondi.omtp.org/default.aspx http://bondi.omtp.org/Documents/CR10/BONDI%201_0%20Candidate%20Release.zip. http://bondi.omtp.org/Lists/News/DispForm.aspx?ID=1&Source=http%3A%2F%2Fbondi.omtp.org%2Fdefault.aspx OpenAjax wiki pages relevant to BONDI http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_APIs http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Security http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Enterprise http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Evangelism http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_V2_Wishlist http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_History Conference Call PIN and Phone Numbers Passcode: 8524962301 Conference Access: Toll free: 1-888-619-1583 Toll: 1-719-457-1414 International toll free - Argentina: 0800 666 3149 International toll free - Australia: 1 800 105 680 International toll free - Austria: 0 800 291 941 International toll free - Belgium: 0 800 75 240 International toll free - Chile: 123 0020 9725 International toll free - China, Northern Region: 10 800 714 1201 International toll free - China, Southern Region: 10 800 140 1180 International toll free - Colombia: 01 800 518 0789 International toll free - Costa Rica: 0800 015 0616 International toll free - Czech Republic: 800 700 294 International toll free - Denmark: 80 886 215 International toll free - Dominican Republic: 1 888 751 4488 International toll free - Ecuador: 1 800 020 321 International toll free - France: 0 800 90 0161 International toll free - Germany: 0 800 181 9019 International toll free - Greece: 00 800 161 2205 5955 International toll free - Hong Kong: 800 901 110 International toll free - Hungary: 06 800 162 50 International toll free - India: 000 800 1006 980 International toll free - Indonesia: 001 803 017 5955 International toll free - Ireland: 1 800 760 547 International toll free - Israel: 1 809 246 041 International toll free - Italy: 800 873 739 International toll free - Japan: 00531 16 0844 International toll free - Lithuania: 8 800 3 05 25 International toll free - Luxembourg: 800 2 7665 International toll free - Malaysia: 1 800 813 714 International toll free - Mexico: 001 800 514 5955 International toll free - Monaco: 800 93 416 International toll free - Netherlands: 0 800 023 5303 International toll free - New Zealand: 0 800 451 015 International toll free - Norway: 800 196 65 International toll free - Panama: 00 800 226 5955 International toll free - Poland: 00 800 111 49 58 International toll free - Portugal: 800 819 728 International toll free - Russia: 810 800 2704 1012 International toll free - Singapore: 800 101 2002 International toll free - Slovenia: 0 800 80203 International toll free - South Africa: 0 800 980 988 International toll free - South Korea: 003 0813 1963 International toll free - Spain: 900 947 604 International toll free - Sweden: 02 079 7556 International toll free - Switzerland: 0 800 564 397 International toll free - Thailand: 001 800 156 205 5955 International toll free - Trinidad-Tobago: 1 800 205 5955 International toll free - UK: 0 808 101 1146 International toll free - Uruguay: 0004 019 0188 International toll free - Venezuela: 0 800 100 8300 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090318/1ecbcd51/attachment.html From paddy.byers at gmail.com Thu Mar 19 08:59:51 2009 From: paddy.byers at gmail.com (Paddy Byers) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 15:59:51 +0000 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Tomorrow's agenda: BONDI feedback In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <59db1b5a0903190859s2a817c96q924a116950fe0abd@mail.gmail.com> Hi, I'm sorry, but a conflict has come up and I won't be able to be on this call. Overall I think the feedback you've written up as a result of these Enterprise and Security interviews is valuable and very constructive. In the Enterprise area I think BONDI has a lot of good pointers as to things it can do next. In the security area, it sounds like the major concern is that the overall approach is unproven, especially as the actual effectiveness depends on details that BONDI itself doesn't specify (eg getting the appropriate balance between the factors that influence the complexity and usability of a policy). I am sure that the BONDI members would be willing to get into a more detailed discussion to improve our mutual understanding of the issues that will determine its success or failure. Thanks - Paddy 2009/3/18 Jon Ferraiolo > Mobile TF phone call tomorrow. I thought we could focus the discussion > tomorrow on: > > * *http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Security* > * *http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Enterprise* > > > > - Date: Thursday, March 19, 2009 > - Time: > - 9amPT, noonET, 4pm London, 5pm Paris > - (NOTE: USA changed to daylight savings before rest of > world) > - Agenda > - Summary: Discuss latest BONDI specs and work towards official > OpenAjax feedback on those specs. > - BONDI information > - *http://bondi.omtp.org/default.aspx* > - * > http://bondi.omtp.org/Documents/CR10/BONDI%201_0%20Candidate%20Release.zip > * > - * > http://bondi.omtp.org/Lists/News/DispForm.aspx?ID=1&Source=http%3A%2F%2Fbondi.omtp.org%2Fdefault.aspx > * > - OpenAjax wiki pages relevant to BONDI > - *http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI* > - * > http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_APIs* > - * > http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Security > * > - * > http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Enterprise > * > - *http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Evangelism* > - *http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_V2_Wishlist > * > - *http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_History* > > > *Conference Call PIN and Phone Numbers * > Passcode: 8524962301 > > Conference Access: > Toll free: 1-888-619-1583 > Toll: 1-719-457-1414 > > International toll free - Argentina: 0800 666 3149 > International toll free - Australia: 1 800 105 680 > International toll free - Austria: 0 800 291 941 > International toll free - Belgium: 0 800 75 240 > International toll free - Chile: 123 0020 9725 > International toll free - China, Northern Region: 10 800 714 1201 > International toll free - China, Southern Region: 10 800 140 1180 > International toll free - Colombia: 01 800 518 0789 > International toll free - Costa Rica: 0800 015 0616 > International toll free - Czech Republic: 800 700 294 > International toll free - Denmark: 80 886 215 > International toll free - Dominican Republic: 1 888 751 4488 > International toll free - Ecuador: 1 800 020 321 > International toll free - France: 0 800 90 0161 > International toll free - Germany: 0 800 181 9019 > International toll free - Greece: 00 800 161 2205 5955 > International toll free - Hong Kong: 800 901 110 > International toll free - Hungary: 06 800 162 50 > International toll free - India: 000 800 1006 980 > International toll free - Indonesia: 001 803 017 5955 > International toll free - Ireland: 1 800 760 547 > International toll free - Israel: 1 809 246 041 > International toll free - Italy: 800 873 739 > International toll free - Japan: 00531 16 0844 > International toll free - Lithuania: 8 800 3 05 25 > International toll free - Luxembourg: 800 2 7665 > International toll free - Malaysia: 1 800 813 714 > International toll free - Mexico: 001 800 514 5955 > International toll free - Monaco: 800 93 416 > International toll free - Netherlands: 0 800 023 5303 > International toll free - New Zealand: 0 800 451 015 > International toll free - Norway: 800 196 65 > International toll free - Panama: 00 800 226 5955 > International toll free - Poland: 00 800 111 49 58 > International toll free - Portugal: 800 819 728 > International toll free - Russia: 810 800 2704 1012 > International toll free - Singapore: 800 101 2002 > International toll free - Slovenia: 0 800 80203 > International toll free - South Africa: 0 800 980 988 > International toll free - South Korea: 003 0813 1963 > International toll free - Spain: 900 947 604 > International toll free - Sweden: 02 079 7556 > International toll free - Switzerland: 0 800 564 397 > International toll free - Thailand: 001 800 156 205 5955 > International toll free - Trinidad-Tobago: 1 800 205 5955 > International toll free - UK: 0 808 101 1146 > International toll free - Uruguay: 0004 019 0188 > International toll free - Venezuela: 0 800 100 8300 > > > _______________________________________________ > mobile mailing list > mobile at openajax.org > http://openajax.org/mailman/listinfo/mobile > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090319/93e0e088/attachment-0001.html From jferrai at us.ibm.com Thu Mar 19 14:05:55 2009 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:05:55 -0700 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Minutes 2009-03-19 Message-ID: Mobile Minutes 2009-03-19 URL: http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/Mobile_Minutes_2009-03-19 Attendees Jon Ferraiolo, IBM Mohammed Dadas, Orange Andrew Sledd, Ikivo Nick Allott, OMTP (invited guest) Adam Peller, IBM David Boloker, IBM Andre Charland, Nitobi Jeremy Chone, Nexaweb Original Agenda Agenda Summary: Discuss latest BONDI specs and work towards official OpenAjax feedback on those specs. BONDI information http://bondi.omtp.org/default.aspx http://bondi.omtp.org/Documents/CR10/BONDI%201_0%20Candidate%20Release.zip. http://bondi.omtp.org/Lists/News/DispForm.aspx?ID=1&Source=http%3A%2F%2Fbondi.omtp.org%2Fdefault.aspx OpenAjax wiki pages relevant to BONDI http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Security http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Enterprise Minutes White paper Jon: Nick, you said at the last phone call that you would pull together a BONDI primer. You have sent me drafts. Is it now posted? Nick: Yes. How should I send the URL? Jon: Send an email to me. Jon: Probably can't organize feedback relative to the primer until after your F2F. PhoneGap Andre: PhoneGap is a framework for developers. Open source with MIT license. HTML and JS run natively on phone across multiple mobile platforms. Same JS code using same APIs across different phones. APIs give access to system functions. Pretty much complete at this point regarding iPhone 2.0. We now have 40-50 apps in the app store using the framework. Among APIs supported are accelerometer and GPS. Android is in process. Some things work on RIM, but the browser available to the SDK is very limited. Also targeting Nokia, Palm and Windows Mobile. APIs bridge from JS to native platform support, such as Objective-C on iPhone. 500 developers on our mailing list. My company is a service provider for JS development. We are also working on simulators fro Eclipse and Dreamweaver. It is possible that UI consists of a URL to a web page on the net. Jeremy: What's the difference with iPhone 3.0? Andre: More APIs. Also, geo APIs are available directly within WebKit. Jeremy: What you are providing is a native wrapper over HTML Andre: Yes, similar to what AIR does Jon: Are there leverage opportunities between PhoneGap and BONDI? For example, PhoneGap might allow accelerated delivery of BONDI APIs, and PhoneGap might benefit from having a gold star for supporting an official set of APIs Nick: PhoneGap delivers a native application but provides a programming environment where you can use HTML+JS, which differs from a web page in that it adds access to device APIs, and in this sense there is overlapping goals. I assume with PhoneGap that security model is delegated to the platform? Andre: Yes. iPhone prompts user when attempting to do an SMS to allow the SMS to be sent. Nick: BONDI has two methods: (a) web page, (b) widget package. Assumption is that platforms will support the BONDI security model and the BONDI API platform. Nick: PhoneGap APIs pretty much the same as BONDI except maybe simpler and more elegant Nick: I support Jon's position on getting them to align Andre: We don't actually want to deliver native applications, but that's the only way to do it today Nick: Yes, a practical solution to a practical problem Andre: Our dream is that one day you won't need to use native apps to do this Jon: W3C Widgets is close to Nokia's ZIP/Dashboard widget technology today. Conceivably, given infinite resources, PhoneGap could implement both W3C Widgets and BONDI. Andre: Yes Nick: Right now our APIs are a superset of PhoneGap's APIs Andre: You will always have the superset/subset feature issue because phones all have different APIs. Nick: We have a few weeks to work together towards minimizing the delta between the technologies Andre: Will BONDI support accelerometer? Nick: Soon after 1.0. Maybe a 1.0.1. Nick: Note that BONDI has an extensible API, so new APIs can be added. Enterprise Feedback http://www.openajax.org/member/wiki/BONDI_Feedback_Enterprise Jon: I talked with a few people from the mobile team at IBM/Lotus. Jon: First interesting thing was their feedback on web pages vs. widgets. Mobile browsing was very much on their radar, but they hadn't thought about mobile widgets as a possible vehicle. I wonder if there is an industry marcom problem with widgets, where the people involved in widgets know about them, and some early adopters, but that the broad mainstream is unaware. Nick: I'm making a note on this. Jon: Second thing is the prioritized list of devices and platforms. iPhone is at the top right now. I'll bet the next four platforms will vary if you talk to different people in Enterprise workflows. Andrew: Email and office requirements will cause people to elevate importance of Windows Mobile Jeremy: There is a huge stack of devices and lots of tricky issues to deploy mobile applications on the devices. Therefore, an Enterprise will just hit the top devices, particularly ones that support the Open Web and are likely to drive the market. Jon: I expect that thinking will be common across Enterprise companies. Jeremy: Probably want more than one, say the top three. Enterprise customers generally want more than one choice Jon: Now onto features. How about support for iCal and vcard? Nick: Problem with vcard is lack of standards and consistency. Instead, we chose to define lower-level APIs. It would be the responsibility of JavaScript logic to parse the vcard or iCal entry Jon: Reasonable response Jon: Finding names based on a pattern? Nick: I don't know whether we support that. Yes, desirable. Jon: Mixing corporate and personal data Nick: Have to research that. We have the ability to have two address books, built-in and SIM card, but whether there is further extensibility, have to check. Maybe use categories to achieve this. An issue is that the underlying platform doesn't have this distinction. Jon: Synchronization is an Enterprise requirement. Nick: We are having discussions in this area. Anything that's offline has to sync. We are talking to Oracle about AtomDB. Jeremy: OMA uses SyncML Jon: Also used by some IBM products. Nick: Pretty well supported on mobile phones. Jeremy: Could you add sync to your spec? Nick: A future consideration Jon: Next big thing from the list: the ability for a server to push a message to client to wake up and act Nick: We will squeeze in an SMS approach as a hack. You have to register for a system event for a change to the SMS inbox. What you really want is something more direct. Jon/Nick: iPhone3 SDK seems to have this Jon: Also, vague worries about usability in applications needed authentication. If you have a touchscreen device, it can take awhile to type. If you have to give various approvals or passwords on the phone to get started, and then have to login to a server to get data, it might take so long that users say forget about it. Nick: BONDI security policy was designed with these issues in mind. There are assurances that the app can be trusted. If there is some HW that authenticates the user, that will help. Widget installation is quite easy. No prompting required. Security model knows that the given widget is trusted. Jon: That's reassuring Security requirements Jon: Not much time left. IBM security experts gave a general thumbs up on the conceptual approach, but that's understandable, because the same people had outlined what was needed before OpenAjax started looking at this, and we all managed to give them what they wanted. Jon: First big thing is the need for concrete use cases. We have mentioned this before. To help out, we brainstormed three quick scenarios for which sample security policies could be formed. Nick: Totally agree that you can only tell when put into practice. That's why we have the reference implementation. Includes multiple examples with security. Includes the features listed in the 3 examples. Jon: Running out of time. Let's look the item on yes/no/prompt. In some cases, such as giving permission to an addressbook, you might want to approve/disapprove on a per-item basis. Nick: That's covered. We have an option for prompt for each item. Jon: OK Jon: OK, out of time. If any other feedback, send to mobile at openajax.org. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090319/8c695c81/attachment.html -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: ecblank.gif Type: image/gif Size: 45 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090319/8c695c81/attachment.gif From jferrai at us.ibm.com Thu Mar 19 14:08:23 2009 From: jferrai at us.ibm.com (Jon Ferraiolo) Date: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:08:23 -0700 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] BONDI primer Message-ID: The BONDI primer is at: http://bondi.omtp.org/BWiki/BONDI%20Primer.aspx ----- Forwarded by Jon Ferraiolo/Menlo Park/IBM on 03/19/2009 02:06 PM ----- "Nick Allott" wrote on 03/19/2009 09:07:10 AM: > http://bondi.omtp.org/BWiki/BONDI%20Primer.aspx > > Nick Allott > Chief Technology Officer > OMTP - BONDI > > www.omtp.org > email: nick.allott at omtp.org > tel: +44 (0) 7714145711. > linkedin: www.linkedin.com/in/nickallott > skype: nallott > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090319/caac877c/attachment.html From nickolas at us.ibm.com Fri Mar 20 09:13:41 2009 From: nickolas at us.ibm.com (Stewart Nickolas) Date: Fri, 20 Mar 2009 12:13:41 -0400 Subject: [OpenAjaxMobile] Stewart Nickolas is out of the office. Message-ID: I will be out of the office starting 03/14/2009 and will not return until 03/23/2009. I will respond to your message when I return. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://openajax.org/pipermail/mobile/attachments/20090320/3161cf14/attachment-0001.html