Marketing Minutes 2006-10-31

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Contents

OpenAjax Alliance Marketing Committee meeting minutes 2006-10-31

Attendees

Present

  • Chris Erickson <chris.erickson@icesoft.com>
  • Chuck Allen <chucka@hr-xml.org>
  • Coach Wei <coach@nexaweb.com>
  • David Frankel <david.frankel@sap.com>
  • Eric Thomas <ethomas@goetc.net>
  • Erwan Paccard <epaccard@ilog.fr>
  • Ian Wenig <ian@zoho.com>
  • Jon Ferraiolo <jferrai@us.ibm.com>
  • Joseph Becker <bjoseph@us.ibm.com>
  • Mike Wagner, Jackbe
  • Sharat Chander <sharat.chander@sun.com>
  • Shel Finkelstein <shel.finkelstein@sap.com>
  • Ted Thibodeau <tthibodeau@openlinksw.com>

Absent

  • Alexei White <awhite@nitobi.com>
  • Andre Charland <andre.charland@nitobi.com>
  • Bradley Sipes <Bradley.Sipes@ikivo.com>
  • Chor-Ching Fan <chor-ching.fan@jackbe.com>
  • Dan Roberts <dan.roberts@sun.com>
  • David Boloker <boloker@us.ibm.com>
  • Dominic Porter <dominic.porter@edgeipk.com>
  • Dylan Schiemann <dylan@dojotoolkit.org>
  • Espen Antonsen <ea@24sevenoffice.com>
  • Javier Gallego <Javier.Gallego@softwareag.com>
  • Jim Driscoll <jim.driscoll@sun.com>
  • Jochen Krause <jkrause@innoopract.de>
  • John (JB) Brock <john.brock@sun.com>
  • John Janetos <jjanetos@laszlosystems.com>
  • John Lilly <lilly@mozilla.com>
  • John Sheridan <john.sheridan.dublin@gmail.com>
  • Jonathan Daly <jdaly@nexaweb.com>
  • Joonas Lehtinen <joonas.lehtinen@itmill.com>
  • Juho Risku <juho.risku@helmitechnologies.com>
  • Luis Derechin <luisd@jackbe.com>
  • Matt Durham <matt.durham@softwareag.com>
  • Paul Kim <pkim@mozilla.com>
  • Raju Vegesna <raju@zoho.com>
  • Stephen Maryka <steve.maryka@icesoft.com>
  • Thomas Stoesser <Thomas.Stoesser@softwareag.com>
  • Todd Hay <thay@activegrid.com>
  • Tony Ng <tony.ng@sun.com>
  • Torsten Preissler <tpreissler@innoopract.com>

Agenda

  • Agenda for Oct 31
    • Review (hopefully approve) a series of minor updates to Web site
      • http://www.openajaxalliance.org/member/website-staging/
      • Here are the updates that have been made:
        • Accessibility fixes per feedback from IBM's accessibility team
          • Each page now has a "Skip Navigation Links" link at top/right in small type
          • White paper diagrams now proper 'alt' text strings, combined with modified text around diagrams so that visually impaired people will be able to hear the essential points from diagrams (i.e., information from diagrams has been made accessible to the visually impaired)
          • Still need to update *.pdf file with same changes
        • Remove non-Members from home page listing
        • Change "Participant wiki" to "Member wiki"
        • New process and realignment of committees (fixes to about.html, white paper, and futures.html)
          • Merging of Interoperability/Markup committees
          • Discussion of Members Agreement, Development Process, Committees, Working Groups and Task Forces
          • Investigating new activities in the areas of IDE integration, server framework integration, security and communications hub (new section within about.html: Task Forces)
        • Added a placeholder bullet on News page for an upcoming blog entry from Jon on f2f meeting
        • Update Coming Events (get rid of past items, add info on April AJAXWorld and next f2f)
        • Not yet done: once we get mailman on openajax.org, update address for public mail list
      • Wiki is now read-only to the public, per decisions at f2f
        • But no longer can people edit the wiki without logging in
        • From now on only Jon (admin) can create new wiki logins
    • Blogging
      • Jon has been researching wordpress, probably could install it this week
      • Proposal: Launch this week
      • Proposal: Two initial blog entries
      • Proposal: only minor skinning work (e.g., use our logo somewhere)
      • Proposal: Steering Committee designates who is authorized to post
        • Initially, SC and Jon
        • Others who want to post can send email request\
      • Proposal (from David after agenda was mailed out): SC members encouraged to add entries to blog on OpenAjax topics (e.g., state of OpenAjax Alliance, issues facing us)
    • Terms of use, logo/trademark usage
      • Looking for high-level feedback this week. Detailed proposals are forthcoming.
      • Proposal: Use Eclipse Foundation web pages as models
    • Market Overview Whitepaper - review Chris's outline
    • OpenAjax member logo (i.e., current logo with the word "Member" at the bottom)
    • Incorporation of "compiled Ajax" into our white paper taxonomy
      • Punch line: "...We believe that 'compiled Ajax' is an appropriate (and popular) solution for a broad range of applications, and should be listed as a top-level classification supported/described by OAA. We're happy to sign up to add the appropriate material to the white paper if there's consensus around this."
      • How to do this? (Pursue an incremental update to Technical Overview White Paper?)
    • Reaching out to other geos
    • (New topic added after agenda was mailed) Increased likelihood of new WGs around security and mobile Ajax

Topic: Review (hopefully approve) a series of minor updates to Web site

  • http://www.openajaxalliance.org/member/website-staging/
  • Here are the updates that have been made:
    • Accessibility fixes per feedback from IBM's accessibility team
      • Each page now has a "Skip Navigation Links" link at top/right in small type
      • White paper diagrams now proper 'alt' text strings, combined with modified text around diagrams so that visually impaired people will be able to hear the essential points from diagrams (i.e., information from diagrams has been made accessible to the visually impaired)
      • Still need to update *.pdf file with same changes
    • Remove non-Members from home page listing
    • Change "Participant wiki" to "Member wiki"
    • New process and realignment of committees (fixes to about.html, white paper, and futures.html)
      • Merging of Interoperability/Markup committees
      • Discussion of Members Agreement, Development Process, Committees, Working Groups and Task Forces
      • Investigating new activities in the areas of IDE integration, server framework integration, security and communications hub (new section within about.html: Task Forces)
    • Added a placeholder bullet on News page for an upcoming blog entry from Jon on f2f meeting
    • Update Coming Events (get rid of past items, add info on April AJAXWorld and next f2f)
    • Not yet done: once we get mailman on openajax.org, update address for public mail list
  • Wiki is now read-only to the public, per decisions at f2f
    • But no longer can people edit the wiki without logging in
    • From now on only Jon (admin) can create new wiki logins

Jon: Minor changes to web site to implement decisions from face-to-face and other recent discussions.

Jon: First thing is that I incorporated feedback from Becky Gibson of IBM accessibility team. A couple of minor changes. Topright corner now has "Skip navigation links" in small type. Purpose is that if running a screen reader is that first thing that screen reader sees is hyperlink which user will activate to go past banner and left-side menu to get to main content, such as "Welcome to OpenAjax Alliance". Good practice for accesibility to have this feature. Tried to make best tradeoff between leaving reasonable visual appearance but satisfies non-visual user. Becky Gibson was happy. Any comments on skip navigation link?

?: Looks good. Good idea.

Jon: Other accessibility changes - main complaint about pictures on white paper that they did not have appropriate alt text. Visually impaired people cannot see drawing. They can only use alt text, longdesc, or text that surrounds pictures. Becky explained options and we worked out an approach. Previously, alt text was generated by mediawiki and was just the file name. Now it provides an executive summary of what the picture is about and then the surrounding text provides textual description of what they picture says. To see alt text, need to run IE. Firefox doesn't show it. IE and FF have different interpretations of alt text in HTML spec. Still haven't updated the PDF file. Wanted to get feedback from this committee first.

Erwan: Naive question. How to equivalent in a PDF?

Jon: Move text into MSWord and then make PDF. Adobe software will generate all of the accessibility things.

Erwan: Got that. But no equivalent of alt text in PDF, right?

Jon: No, there will be. PDF creator will do this. Adobe software will generate appropriate equivalent.

?: PDF is richer than just display.

Jon: Adobe had to address accessibility issues with PDF. Whatever, I will find a way to make the PDF reasonably accessible.

Jon: Any other comments or questions? (none) I encourage people to review everything about web site including accessibility. If you see problems, send email to either me or to the group list.

Jon: Next thing beyond accessibility, as the mktg committee agreed at f2f meeting, the decision was to remove all companies that have not signed members agreement. On staged web site, only companies that signed are there. Those who haven't signed are removed. There are 48 companies listed now. I have been away from the office. I expect there will be a small number of agreements waiting for me at the office and there are a couple of others that should come this week. Should be above 50 before we publish.

Erwan: Any news on big guys, Yahoo Google and others?

Jon: Steering Committee had phone call with Google, BEA, Backbase and Adobe. Talk about proposed development process.

DavidF: What was topic?

Jon: IP issues, to be addressed by formal process for forming working groups and approving material. Four companies seemed fine with this process and leaving Members Agreement as is. BEA and Adobe said they were fine with this approach. Google gave indications they are probably OK also also but did not state so outright. Yahoo is still within internal processes.

DavidF: What were objections?

Jon: I can't speak for them, but in general were fears that we might go beyond our current set of activities and define specifications that might dilute their patent portfolios. Instead of working on things like OpenAjax Hub we did new things and they weren't monitoring. The new Development Process would notify everyone about scope of work before working group was formed and there would be review processes before approvals.

Jon: Next change. Instead of "Participant wiki" now "Member wiki". Also, various documents on web pages have been updated to be accurate. For example, overview used to say there was an Interop and Markup committee, but now just says Interop committee. The most extensive changes have been to About page, particularly the new sections on Task Forces (IDE, Server, communications hub and security) and mentions that we are finalizing formal process for working groups.

Shel: Who are members of task forces?

Jon: Whoever wants to be. We established some members and chairs.

Shel: No explanation on blog about how to join task forces.

Jon: Yes, not in blog. I am not sure it belongs in blog. Blog is meant for public. Members should just know that they can join. Wikis for the task forces should clear about how to join. Basically, it's open. What you need to do is tell chair and update wiki page. Each task force wiki page should show membership.

Ted: Where is list of task forces? Not on home page.

Jon: Link from Interoperability page.

Erwan: Any news on security?

Jon: No news except that a small number of people have volunteered. IBM volunteered to chair. One bit of news is that David has a security expert to participate and lead the task force, but I don't know his name.

Jon: In general, task forces haven't kicked into gear. The communications task force has had some discussion and the wiki page has some content.

Jon: If you go to news page, there is a placeholder, which we will get to that later when we get to topic of blogging. On events page, I updated it for 2007 events, but I don't know about Ajax Experience. If anyone knows, please tell me. I sent email to Jay, but they are probably still recovering from last week's conference.

Jon: Also, still working on Mailman. It keeps looking like I have only one more step, but that was 10 steps ago. Maybe today will be the last step.

Jon: Per f2f decision, wiki is now open read-only to public. You can't change the wiki unless you are logged in. You can't get a login unless I give you one. Existing wiki login should still work. Any new people who want to change wiki, I will have to give you a login. Now, new companies will get wiki logins, but for existing 150-200 people participating, I will wait for people to tell me and will make logins on demand.

?: Sounds like a plan. Sounds good.

Jon: Any more comments on web site? What I would like to have is approval to move staged web site to real web site. And do so after Steering Committee has meeting on Thursday. So does anyone want to raise an objetion to moving this on Thursday or Friday?

(no objections)

Jon: Hearing no objections, we will do that.

Topic: Blogging

  • Jon has been researching wordpress, probably could install it this week
  • Proposal: Launch this week
  • Proposal: Two initial blog entries
  • Proposal: only minor skinning work (e.g., use our logo somewhere)
  • Proposal: Steering Committee designates who is authorized to post
    • Initially, SC and Jon
    • Others who want to post can send email request\
  • Proposal (from David after agenda was mailed out): SC members encouraged to add entries to blog on OpenAjax topics (e.g., state of OpenAjax Alliance, issues facing us)

Jon: I have been playing with wordpress. Looks like it is used commonly. Looks easy to set up. I have two proposed blog entries. I propose we put up wordpress with standard interface but with minor skinning such as our logo.

Chuck: HR-XML has strung together wordpress and mailman and another wiki tool. If you have any questions, I would be happy to help. Have been using Mailman for a couple of years. We have used wordpress. Yes, easy to set up. You have to anticipate the creative folks who are putting out spambots. A lot is common sense about setting up defaults. You are suggestion wordpress and ground rules for content. Putting in logos to match accounts. We did that - some scripting on right page so when a particular author authors something, the right logo appears. Be happy to share our code.

Jon: Thank you. Let's get into the proposed rules for who can post. What I am thinking is that we have 7 people who have been voted by the membership, or 7 companies, and there are people that we know who are representing these companies, so there are 7 individuals, so I propose that we grant ability to blog to the 7 SC participants and me. I am trustworthy because I control the web site and blog and speak at industry conferences on behalf of the committee. Others can ask SC to become a blogger. That's might proposal for who. In terms of what can be posted, look at my scratchpad at the bottom. There is my proposal. (Jon asks if people are reading the words). "The main purpose is...consistent with mission and objections...not promoting particular companies or products...etc". Those are words I proposed for instructions and guidelines as first blog entry. How do people feel?

Erwan: What about people willing to do one post - can we drop you an email to avoid lengthy process of going through SC.

Jon: yes, sure, but better that people post for themselves. Don't want all posts coming from me. Want to show that we are a group.

Chuck: Having run wordpress, yes, it is ideal to get people to set up accounts, and you can set up levels of accounts. We do have some guest posters that don't want an account, but if you want identify logos you need to set up an account?

Ted: Does wordpress have moderation features?

Chuck: Yes, lots.

Ted: Anyone can post, but moderator has to approve.

Jon: I haven't gotten to that part of admin, but high order bit is that admin can wipe out posts and comments at will. If something inappropriate goes on blog, admin can get rid of it.

Chuck: Yes, you will find the need to moderator. The spammers are ingenious. Even with filters, you can't leave it open. Humans have to look at things. Other than people with established accounts.

Jon: Question. My expectation is that we will have occasional posts and occasional comments. Not a high volume.

Chuck. Yes. Except for the spammers. One disadvantage of wordpress is easily identifiable signature. People with bots that anticipate wordpress. If I left it wide open, I would get 500 spam comments per day.

Jon: Wordpress recommends defaults that moderator reviews comments.

Chuck: I can share my dirty word list.

Jon: I will take you up on your help in setting it up.

Jon: Let me explain why we need a blog. First, promoting our vision. But second is information. Right now info vehicles are web site and press releases. Both are heavyweight. Not all news and information will be covered by press. One of prime reasons for blogging is a place to post information about things going on with OpenAjax. For example, no article on our face-to-face meeting. That's the second blog entry, which is summary of what happened so public can get capsule summary. Purpose is providing plain information.

Chuck: Absolutely makes sense. Lots of information you want to get out that is not press release material. If you don't get it out, then assumption with standards org is that nothing is going on. We try to strike appropriate balance where members can talk freely but we want to get out practical information about direction and milestones. Ours has worked as a sort of micro channel. Syndication is wonderful too. Also, you might want to run a disclaimer. Unless otherwise stated, not a consensus opinion of OpenAjax, information is from the person who authored the articule.

Chris: Right.

Chris: I think it is a great idea. Helps builds up confidence and share information.

Ian: Also think it is a great vehicle.

Jon: Ok, does anyone object to launching as soon as we can figure out how to do sysadmin things?

Chris: I am in favor.

Erwan: Yes

Shel: You might want to make sure no one will object to their contributions being blogged.

Chuck: Yes, need to be careful about what information is shared from group discussions. But blogging has been very valuable. In first year, no blogging and everyone thought nothing was happening with HR-XML. A practical way to show that things are in the works, and deliverables are being made.

Jon: We decided in f2f that all meetings will be minutes and all minutes and emails will be public, so the only time when not made public is when someone asks that something be off the record.

Chuck: In terms of IP, if there is anything that they don't want to be a contribution, they should say so.

Jon: Actually, our Members Agreement says that anything you contribute is available as a contribution. If you don't want to surrender it, keep your mouth shut.

DavidF: Blog is a good idea for me.

Jon: OK, great. So, if anyone has contributions for blog that you want to contribute, please work on blog entry.

Topic: Terms of use, logo/trademark usage

  • Looking for high-level feedback this week. Detailed proposals are forthcoming.
  • Proposal: Use Eclipse Foundation web pages as models

Jon: I hope this one is short. We don't have a web pages for terms of use for the web site and what people can do with logo and trademarks. I looked into this and concluded that Eclipse has good models. Pretty loose approach. Feedback I am looking for right now is whether anyone has comments about Eclipse approaches used as model. And then I will prepare complete text for Terms of Use and Logo/Trademark web pages based on comments. So, any comments on modeling after Eclipse?

(no comments)

Jon: Hearing no feedback, I will assume it is OK for now. If people have time to research, please send your feedback.

Topic: Market Overview Whitepaper - review Chris's outline

Chris: I decided that once I got off the plane I would send whatever I had so far.

Jon: Any comments?

DavidF: It says it is an executive guide. One kind of executive? Topics are leaning towards technical. IT exec or LOB exec?

Chris: IT exec.

DavidF: OK.

Chris: Everything is open for discussion. Initial discussion was helping IT executive to have business discussion about moving to Ajax. Questions about whether it should be industry specific. I literally swallowed my pride and submitted what I had. In spirit of wiki, requires lots of collaboration and changes.

Ian: Comment on my side. When subject of marketing white paper, some people agree to target a business exec, non-technical audience, this caused me to focus on use cases to show world how Ajax was implemented and give people an idea from end user perspective. While my marketing white paper...Two different purposes for why they were written. I am not saying my white paper is worth publishing as is, but we need to discuss whether to have separate white paper for technical and non-technical.

DavidF: You are saying the first Mtkg overview was targeted at LOB whereas this one is more technical.

Ian: Yes.

DavidF: I understand.

Jon: Out of time. Let's collaborate via email and wiki on high-level questions. Then maybe at next phone call in 2 weeks we can make decisions on higher-level issues.

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